Well, maybe she did. However, I can?t help noticing the huge increase in the vast majority of ordinary people's prosperity since 1979 - a Mercedes, or BMW, on every street corner. Home ownership within the grasp of almost everyone who can be bothered to get up off his or her arse. Vacations to Florida, Vegas, Barbados and beyond being regularly taken by most of my old council estate pals. Hey, 20 years ago it was only James fuckin? Bond who got to go there!
Yes, Maggie certainly kicked the old industries into touch - I fact to which I am always grateful as my Merc glides into the drive of my Grade 2 Listed.
M.G.
What Models are Paid
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ecucamman
Re: What Models are Paid
I can only speak for myself here........ I offer a payment based on the amount Im expecting to get when the set or video is sold. Model fee can vary from a minimum say ?175, for 1 short single girl set and short 18 rated video, to ?400 for a days work ( up to girl/girl). My stuff is all sold in UK and I dont shoot boy/girl material at all. The rates paid for photo sets in UK vary from as little as ?200 per set to perhaps ?1000. Thats what sets my budget, not necessarily the type of material. Also remember hardware has to be paid for along with processing and possibly studio or location. I'm hearing of girls doing boy girl scenes for ?250, but Im unsure who is payiong that and how much they are making from the product at the end of the day. Im intrigued to know what models feel is a reasonable pay, and what others think its 'ok' for the photographer to make?
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woodgnome
Re: What Models are Paid
the pathetically misogynistic language you use belies the truth of your main point, which is that doing things on the cheap is a short term strategy offering limited or no prospects for market development. you have to speculate to accumulate, which means sustained investment in production, marketing and decent pay and conditions for the women who will shift your merchandise.
it's a pity you choose to describe those same women in such a dehumanising way, when you work in a business that is totally reliant on their participation - perhaps familiarity breeds contempt? further proof, if any were needed, that the sooner more women hold the reins in the industry, the better.
btw, you're completely wrong, about the supposedly 'lesser' quality of the girls now coming through. rebekah jordan, andrea spinks, amanda dawkins, elen coles, blaze gordon, melissa walker, rebecca irwin, emma pierce, laura biggs, michelle thorne and many others, plus a slew of girls debuting with the likes of big jim, cathy barry, etc, indicate things are nothing like as dismal as your nostalgia tinted glasses would have you believe. in fact, they've never been better.
it's a pity you choose to describe those same women in such a dehumanising way, when you work in a business that is totally reliant on their participation - perhaps familiarity breeds contempt? further proof, if any were needed, that the sooner more women hold the reins in the industry, the better.
btw, you're completely wrong, about the supposedly 'lesser' quality of the girls now coming through. rebekah jordan, andrea spinks, amanda dawkins, elen coles, blaze gordon, melissa walker, rebecca irwin, emma pierce, laura biggs, michelle thorne and many others, plus a slew of girls debuting with the likes of big jim, cathy barry, etc, indicate things are nothing like as dismal as your nostalgia tinted glasses would have you believe. in fact, they've never been better.
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Rimbaud
Re: What Models are Paid
200 quid? Bargainous. When I made enquiries about my own production - watch this space fellers - I was surprised by how cheap it was.
But it's not necessarily a case of producers exploiting desperate girls, I'm sure. Obviously you know the business, W, but some of the girls I talked to worked for small fees because they enjoyed it and preferred it to "proper" work. I'm sure a union of some sort would help rein in the excesses and abuses which exist in porn but I'd hate to see British porn lose its remainign amateur ethos where at least some girls do it for kicks.
But it's not necessarily a case of producers exploiting desperate girls, I'm sure. Obviously you know the business, W, but some of the girls I talked to worked for small fees because they enjoyed it and preferred it to "proper" work. I'm sure a union of some sort would help rein in the excesses and abuses which exist in porn but I'd hate to see British porn lose its remainign amateur ethos where at least some girls do it for kicks.
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Rimbaud
Re: What Models are Paid
You're right - it's a vicious circle. Low fees to actresses beget dodgy old scrubbers, for which fans will not pay much money, leading to producers having no cash, leading to low fees to actresses.
None of my friends in the "biz" drives a Ferrari, they do it for fun, but even the fun fades a bit when you can't afford pretty girls. Round of applause for those precious few nice, sexy, up-for-it girls who keep the business ticking over for laughs and pocket money.
None of my friends in the "biz" drives a Ferrari, they do it for fun, but even the fun fades a bit when you can't afford pretty girls. Round of applause for those precious few nice, sexy, up-for-it girls who keep the business ticking over for laughs and pocket money.
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Rimbaud
Re: What Models are Paid
Hell, if the amateur producers don't mind producing unsaleable stuff, and just do it for kicks, what right have you got to rail against them? Let them have their fun - several "pro" producers started out that way (look at Ben Dover's early stuff - Ben's a porn genius, but we're hardly talking Sky Sports levels of camerawork here).
As for amateurs driving fess down, be serious. You can't tell me the "pros" would be able to pay more if only the hobbyists weren't around. By your own admission, their stuff is unsaleable and thus they don't compete with you. The girls don't have to work for amateur producers if they don't want to, and without the amateur sector, there'd be even LESS work to go round and thus the same number of models would be sharing a smaller pool of wealth.
As for amateurs driving fess down, be serious. You can't tell me the "pros" would be able to pay more if only the hobbyists weren't around. By your own admission, their stuff is unsaleable and thus they don't compete with you. The girls don't have to work for amateur producers if they don't want to, and without the amateur sector, there'd be even LESS work to go round and thus the same number of models would be sharing a smaller pool of wealth.
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Rimbaud
Re: What Models are Paid
The steel and coal industries were dead on their feet long before Thatcher arrived, and this country had to move, once and for all, into the tertiary sector and high-tech industries. Which it now has done very succesfully. What Thatcher did wrong was to run down the welfare state that her booming tertiary economy could have underwritten and for that reason, the woman should be remembered as less than a total success.
Political debate on a porn forum - I love it.
Political debate on a porn forum - I love it.
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Rimbaud
Re: What Models are Paid
You're both right really. DT may have expressed himself in misogynistic terms but there's simply no faulting the logic that low fees lead to low quality (not simply unattractive models, but demotivated models and crews, and all round low quality) and low quality plunges the industry deeper into financial crisis. And you're right - one key improvement to be made is proper investment by people who understand porn and respect the girls.
The lovely models you mention are girls of the type I refer to elsewhere - they do it for fun, not just for money. I wouldn't want to see this ethos lost in a clamour for cash, just as I don't agree with Phil that porn would be better if everyone was a professional operating through a taxpaying company. I don't think there are enough of these girls though, and more money might help others overcome their doubts. Further, nobody could really begrudge Andrea, Rebekah, et al a proper reward for their services - even if they're prepared to perform without it. If a union could bring this about, and deal with those genuinely abusive individuals who mar the industry, then so be it.
I also disagree with you that "the sooner more women hold the reins in the industry, the better". To me it's about balance. The women who make porn happen should be well treated and given a say in what goes on, as they are crucial to the entire endeavour - and above all, they are deservant of simple human respect. But porn remains something, by and large, for which the customer base is 99% male, and thus men are well-placed to judge what will satisfy the market. For this reason men will always be involved in the creative/production side of porn, and quite rightly. For instance, would a woman ever have conceived of, or produced, a Bukkake flick? No, because it's such a guy thing. But plenty of girls will participate in them without feeling abused.
The lovely models you mention are girls of the type I refer to elsewhere - they do it for fun, not just for money. I wouldn't want to see this ethos lost in a clamour for cash, just as I don't agree with Phil that porn would be better if everyone was a professional operating through a taxpaying company. I don't think there are enough of these girls though, and more money might help others overcome their doubts. Further, nobody could really begrudge Andrea, Rebekah, et al a proper reward for their services - even if they're prepared to perform without it. If a union could bring this about, and deal with those genuinely abusive individuals who mar the industry, then so be it.
I also disagree with you that "the sooner more women hold the reins in the industry, the better". To me it's about balance. The women who make porn happen should be well treated and given a say in what goes on, as they are crucial to the entire endeavour - and above all, they are deservant of simple human respect. But porn remains something, by and large, for which the customer base is 99% male, and thus men are well-placed to judge what will satisfy the market. For this reason men will always be involved in the creative/production side of porn, and quite rightly. For instance, would a woman ever have conceived of, or produced, a Bukkake flick? No, because it's such a guy thing. But plenty of girls will participate in them without feeling abused.
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woodgnome
Re: What Models are Paid
bukkake? zzzzzzzzzzzzz
as you say - it all comes down to freedom of choice.
your point about demotivation is well made - if people feel that what they are doing is valued either socially or financially or both, it's bound to have a positive effect on the end product and hence it's likelihood of success in the market place.
you're wrong about the demographics of porn consumption, though. surveys stateside have shown the majority of porn rentals are now made by women! extraordinary but true - there are legions of the opposite sex out there who like rumpy pumpy enough to watch it on tape!!
seriously, just because porn has historically been, more or less, a male preserve, doesn't mean there is any inherent reason why it should remain so. a similar argument of natural selection was used not so long ago, in relation to other traditionally male working environments. of course, women now routinely show themselves to be just as suited to performing these tasks as men, if not more so. i honestly don't think porn is any different, in this respect!
as society continues to loosen up and the destigmatisation of porn proceeds apace, more women will take control - it's inevitable. a lot of them will feel they've learnt enough about the business through their work, to take a stab at it. some will be unsuccessful, of course, but others will make it and serve as role models for the next generation of performer/producer wannabees. more power to 'em, i say!
one thing you imply, and with which i agree - the biz here should at all costs try and avoid the almighty ricket that the american and continental industries have made of things.
i'm referring to the quality, not quantity of porn now churned out on both sides of the atlantic. adult entertainment is an amazing success story, measured by it's hugely increased turnover but to anyone with an ounce of discernment, the vast majority of it is soulless, conveyor belt bilge, devoid of personality, imagination, or just about any other positive attribute you might care to mention.
i know, i know, the customer is always right but does he/she have any choice in the matter?
as you say - it all comes down to freedom of choice.
your point about demotivation is well made - if people feel that what they are doing is valued either socially or financially or both, it's bound to have a positive effect on the end product and hence it's likelihood of success in the market place.
you're wrong about the demographics of porn consumption, though. surveys stateside have shown the majority of porn rentals are now made by women! extraordinary but true - there are legions of the opposite sex out there who like rumpy pumpy enough to watch it on tape!!
seriously, just because porn has historically been, more or less, a male preserve, doesn't mean there is any inherent reason why it should remain so. a similar argument of natural selection was used not so long ago, in relation to other traditionally male working environments. of course, women now routinely show themselves to be just as suited to performing these tasks as men, if not more so. i honestly don't think porn is any different, in this respect!
as society continues to loosen up and the destigmatisation of porn proceeds apace, more women will take control - it's inevitable. a lot of them will feel they've learnt enough about the business through their work, to take a stab at it. some will be unsuccessful, of course, but others will make it and serve as role models for the next generation of performer/producer wannabees. more power to 'em, i say!
one thing you imply, and with which i agree - the biz here should at all costs try and avoid the almighty ricket that the american and continental industries have made of things.
i'm referring to the quality, not quantity of porn now churned out on both sides of the atlantic. adult entertainment is an amazing success story, measured by it's hugely increased turnover but to anyone with an ounce of discernment, the vast majority of it is soulless, conveyor belt bilge, devoid of personality, imagination, or just about any other positive attribute you might care to mention.
i know, i know, the customer is always right but does he/she have any choice in the matter?
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Gary
Re: What Models are Paid
does anyone know what new models are paid for working in scenes for Private video
I've noticed Private doesn't have many regular stars who appear in their films, only models who do several scenes only
I've noticed Private doesn't have many regular stars who appear in their films, only models who do several scenes only