Days That Changed The World
Re: Days That Changed The World
I just wish that, one day on this planet, it wasn't the ordinary people that suffered for the crimes/ambitions/misdemeanours of the rulers. Every time some country gets out of line, it's Joe Public or his Vietnamese/Iraqi/Rwandan equivalent that pays the price, rather than the arsewipe calling all the shots.
Pervert
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Re: Days That Changed The World
What nobody has mentioned is that the USA were scared what the Russians would do if the war dragged on.
The USA wanted to end the war quickly because if they carried on with 'normal' war tatics it would have taken much longer, and the Russians may have 'helped'.
They were paranoid that the Russians would sweep down into the south east and take parts of china, korea, vietnam, maybe even japan, like they did in eastern Europe.
Look what happened when they 'helped' us defeat Hitler in Europe. They swept westwards and went into Poland, Georgia, Latvia, and other countries, and stayed there, and it took 50 years to get them out.
Dropping the bomb also showed the Russians what they had, so dont mess with us.
Of course it led to the arms race and cold war but that is another story.
Guilbert
The USA wanted to end the war quickly because if they carried on with 'normal' war tatics it would have taken much longer, and the Russians may have 'helped'.
They were paranoid that the Russians would sweep down into the south east and take parts of china, korea, vietnam, maybe even japan, like they did in eastern Europe.
Look what happened when they 'helped' us defeat Hitler in Europe. They swept westwards and went into Poland, Georgia, Latvia, and other countries, and stayed there, and it took 50 years to get them out.
Dropping the bomb also showed the Russians what they had, so dont mess with us.
Of course it led to the arms race and cold war but that is another story.
Guilbert
Re: Days That Changed The World
Found a great web site with loads of info about the bomb,
plane, decision etc.
I think part of the reason two bombs were dropped was
that they were of different design.
There was 'little boy' and 'fat man', one uraniam based, the
other plutonium based. There was some doubt they would
both work.
They were almost like field tests, although rather a dramatic
way to test a product.
Guilbert
plane, decision etc.
I think part of the reason two bombs were dropped was
that they were of different design.
There was 'little boy' and 'fat man', one uraniam based, the
other plutonium based. There was some doubt they would
both work.
They were almost like field tests, although rather a dramatic
way to test a product.
Guilbert
Re: Days That Changed The World
Wasn't there some discussion about arranging some sort of truce with the Japanese and inviting them to witness a test explosion in the US. The idea was abandoned because they might suspect it was a very large amount of conventional explosive being exploded.
Mart
Mart
Re: Days That Changed The World
There were few people who could contest Hitler's position as worst person of the 20th century, but Stalin was definitely a contender. In some ways he may have been worse. His reigns of terror, the show trials, the gulags, the suicides, the mass executions----it's reckoned around 30 million may have died during his own paranoid years. The fact that he and his men invaded Poland at the same time as Hitler has almost been forgotten as, at a vital moment during the war, he became cuddly Uncle Joe, our bestest chum. Without the eastern front, Hitler would have taken all of Europe, and then begun his campaign to eradicate the Slavic peoples.
The bastard has been dead over 50 years, yet still I feel a shudder of revulsion at the thought of him.
The bastard has been dead over 50 years, yet still I feel a shudder of revulsion at the thought of him.
Pervert
The Worlds Biggest Collector Of Ben Dover DVD`s
Koppite Till I Die
Remember - You`ll Never Walk Alone
The Worlds Biggest Collector Of Ben Dover DVD`s
Koppite Till I Die
Remember - You`ll Never Walk Alone
Re: Days That Changed The World
pol pot, ida amin (who was sheltered by the saudi's - of who our government [especially our 'foreign office'] has always kiss arsed to) spring to mind.
Re: Days That Changed The World
It's a very interesting thread, Caractacus. I don't believe Truman to be a war criminal. Although the bombings were horrific and were intended to be acts of finality, we were still at war. And I think it was (and is) a war that remains unique in its combination of terror, manpower and the geo-political aspects which were a major factor in the decisions to drop the bombs.
Lest we forget, the japanese nation was the most militarised nation on earth. Capable of extreme atrocity and brutality, they were for the vast majority a people prepared to sacrifice and die for the cause, manifested in human form by the Emperor Hirohito. An extreme act was required and as BC has said, it did have a lasting effect.
Do civilians pay the price ? Yes and again WW2 is surely the very worst example of this in human history. But I would say again that this was a total war. Full prosecution and no surrender as agreed by the Allied Warlords at Tehran and Yalta. For Germany the acts were the conquest of their territories from West and East and the bombing of cities such as Dresden part of the strategic and propagandist Allied efforts.
I never feel any shame about these acts (nor do my father or uncles who actually fought) as the decisions NOT to do them would have been the greater evil in my view.
I have a problem with historical and moral absolutism. Like our transport system, they don't work. Thankfully, recent history has brought back the relativism and empathy, which you gracefully acknowledge.
War is littered throughout history with such acts, some in my view justified and others not. And on balance I think this was. I don't think the Russian theory nor the practice bombing rationale have any credence.
The issues around appeasement and government size are red herrings. The US was and is the greatest military-industrial state since the Roman Empire regardless of 'big' or 'small' government.
I would be interested in your views.
Lest we forget, the japanese nation was the most militarised nation on earth. Capable of extreme atrocity and brutality, they were for the vast majority a people prepared to sacrifice and die for the cause, manifested in human form by the Emperor Hirohito. An extreme act was required and as BC has said, it did have a lasting effect.
Do civilians pay the price ? Yes and again WW2 is surely the very worst example of this in human history. But I would say again that this was a total war. Full prosecution and no surrender as agreed by the Allied Warlords at Tehran and Yalta. For Germany the acts were the conquest of their territories from West and East and the bombing of cities such as Dresden part of the strategic and propagandist Allied efforts.
I never feel any shame about these acts (nor do my father or uncles who actually fought) as the decisions NOT to do them would have been the greater evil in my view.
I have a problem with historical and moral absolutism. Like our transport system, they don't work. Thankfully, recent history has brought back the relativism and empathy, which you gracefully acknowledge.
War is littered throughout history with such acts, some in my view justified and others not. And on balance I think this was. I don't think the Russian theory nor the practice bombing rationale have any credence.
The issues around appeasement and government size are red herrings. The US was and is the greatest military-industrial state since the Roman Empire regardless of 'big' or 'small' government.
I would be interested in your views.