'Suicide Bomber' shooting - the verdict

[BIG BEAR]

Did anybody seriously believe that the authourities would prosecute any
one who was involved with this cock up come on let's get real here we
would have more chance of seeing Teresa May going for the world record
gang bang been broadcast live on sky one than professional so called
goverment agencies prosecuteing their own, lets face it police do not like
other police officers been charged with any offence just has doctors and
solicitors don't like been sued by other members of there organisations.
Alot of high profile jobs would have been put on the line not to mention
the loss of their pension schemes lets face facts they only shot some poor
innocent bastard who was in the wrong place at the wrong time look at
all the other people who have been shot in recent years by the so called
police marksmen funny how they always seem to go for the fatal kill shots
and never seem to go for leg, shoulder or other shots that would render
the suspect incapacitated, i know that the tube shooting was a different
case there he had to be stopped at all costs because they were told he
had a bomb so the only target to aim for was his head and more to the
point in the mouth which would have stopped any reflex reactions from him
enabling him from detonating a device but it's a sad fact of the days in
which we find ourselves living in at the moment it's a case of proven guilty
by association to what you look like then if a mistake is made they just
hide behind the time honoured saying we were acting on orders i seem to
remember a trial in nuremberg where alot of other people came up with
that defence strange i seem to recolect that we hung them !!
Funny old world

[Sam Slater]

My punctuation, spelling & grammar aren't the best, so I'll ask for your forgiveness in advance....

I wanted to read your post as I'm interested in others opinions on this subject, but I stopped half way through as my eyes were hurting.

Ever heard of 'paragraphs' & 'full stops'? lol!

[Sam Slater]

c.j.jaxxon wrote:[quote]police makes mistakes but to dismiss them as they must've had a reason to shoot means to me that because of this terrorism thing, they've got itchy trigger fingers and need some more training.[/quote]

Well, since he was suspected of planning to bomb tube stations. Was making his way to a tube station, and then 'ran' into the tube station -trying to outrun police- who asked him to stop, I'd presume he had something to hide. I'd assume he was trying to get onto a tube train and blow people up before the police could stop him. I'd assume that the police thought that he needed to be shot -in the head- pretty sharpish to save hundreds of lives. The mistake was an intelligence 'fuck up'. There's no mistake in killing a guy running away from police, towards a tube station days after unsuccessful attempts.

Just so everyone knows. IF A POLICEMEN TOLD ME TO 'STOP' WHILE POINTING A GUN AT ME, I'D STOP! It's the natural, instinctive, and sensible thing, for an innocent person to do.

Also I think the police get enough training. You can't train people to 'mind read' what someones going to do. Police forces in the USA have had to deal with armed criminals much longer than here in Briton, yet they still shoot innocent people. Extra training won't make much difference, when it comes to judging a persons intentions within a split second.

It's gonna be really hard for some people to take, but when it comes to bombing innocents -going about their everyday lives- then it's 'act' first, 'think' later.

We can't ask a suicide bomber to sit down & have a chat & a nice mug of coffee. We can't go through his childhood fears & upbringing trying to find out why he wants to bomb people. We can't stroke his hair and tell him 'everythings ok now'. If the guy had 'froze on the spot & pissed his pants', he'd be alive today, I'm certain of it.

[c.j.jaxxon]

But Sam, the question is, IS HE A BOMBER. If he is, then they got their guy. If he ain't, well somebody's in trouble. I don't know what made the police shoot him. On one hand I hear he kept walking on the train. The other says he ran. I hear different accounts on how he got shot.

[Sam Slater]

[quote]But Sam, the question is, IS HE A BOMBER.[/quote]

EXACTLY! A very easy, and obvious question. The 'difficulty' comes when we ponder the timing of that very question. Do we ask the suspect before he blows 300 people up -giving him time to detonate the bomb-, or after we've put bullets in his skull?

The 1st option means everybody's a winner IF he's not a real terrorist, but if he IS a terrorist then you, your comrades, and 300 civilians are dead.

The 2nd option looks good if he IS a terrorist about to blow a tube station off the map, but an innocent man die's IF he turns out to be just a regular guy.

Now I don't gamble, but it seems to me that the first option has a lot to gain (everybody's happy & no one's killed), but the most to lose (300 dead civilians) . The second option has a lot to gain (stopping a terrorist attack) but not as much to lose as the 1st option (one innocent dead instead of hundreds).

Now, in an ideal world we choose the right option everytime. We shoot to kill when he's a terrorist, and decide not to shoot when he turns out to be innocent, or the intelligence is flawed. Now because we don't live in an ideal world, we don't choose to gamble on the right option sometimes. Thats all I'm saying, and though it's hard to accept an innocent man being shot by police, the second option is the safest bet when it comes to saving lives.

It's simple math, 1 (accidental) innocent death, is better than 100, 200, or 300 (purposely murdered) innocent deaths.

I'm not at all worried about being shot by police when I'm on the London underground, because if they ask me to 'stop!' or 'freeze!' then thats exactly what I'll do!

[c.j.jaxxon]

Well when I ask that question, of course I'm asking in past tense because he's dead now. I don't know what he was before he was shot. But I see you're looking at "what if". I'm not into 'what if" thinking because the out come now is what it is. And yep! I find it hard that an innocent man got shot. Nobody said he's guilty! I gotta go to bed. Gotta get up in the morning. Night night!

[Robches]

"Well, since he was suspected of planning to bomb tube stations. Was making his way to a tube station, and then 'ran' into the tube station -trying to outrun police- who asked him to stop, I'd presume he had something to hide. I'd assume he was trying to get onto a tube train and blow people up before the police could stop him. I'd assume that the police thought that he needed to be shot -in the head- pretty sharpish to save hundreds of lives. The mistake was an intelligence 'fuck up'. There's no mistake in killing a guy running away from police, towards a tube station days after unsuccessful attempts.

Just so everyone knows. IF A POLICEMEN TOLD ME TO 'STOP' WHILE POINTING A GUN AT ME, I'D STOP! It's the natural, instinctive, and sensible thing, for an innocent person to do."

FFS Sam, stop repeating this garbage! It is the spin Scotland Yard put out after they had killed Menezes, but it is not true.

The IPCC investigation has shown that Menezes was followed from his flat as he got on a bus, went to Stockwell Station, used his oyster card to get through the ticket barrier, walked on to a train and sat down with a copy of the Metro news. He was then seized by one policeman and shot by another. He did not run away from them, he was not challenged and he never had a chance to submit to them.

The whole point of a Kratos op is that the police have concrete information that their suspect is a suicide bomber who has a bomb on him. He therefore has to be shot dead with no warning, in case he sets the bomb off. Given that, it is absolutely essential that the police are sure they have identified the right person, because otherwise they will kill an innocent man. That is exactly what they did.

The fact that one year on you are still repeating the police disinformation which has been long since disproved either shows that disinformation works, or else you don't really want to deal with the facts. Maybe you can't handle the truth?

[BGAFD Admin]

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[c.j.jaxxon]

As my grandmother and father's generation used to say, "Tell It"!

[Sam Slater]

I'm sorry Robches, but I never got around to reading the IPCC report.

It doesn't matter anyway, as my original point was that we shouldn't be pissed off at the policeman/woman who shot the suspect. At the lies? YES At the bad intelligence? YES, but at the gunman? NO

It was a tragic accident that the guy had to die, but it was a mistake. Get over it and enjoy your life, thanful in the knowledge that there are thousands of people, working 24 hours a day just so you can walk around taking your children for a walk without you all being killed.

Mistake's will always happen Robches, and I'm willing to accept innocent lives being lost now & again if it reduces the chances of other bombings.

The police did the right thing, regardless of the circumstances.