Not the SAS's finest moment. A bunch of them arrive by helicopter close to a farmyard in Libya, ostensibly defending a couple of M16 operatives trying to make contact with the rebel leaders in the area.
They promptly get arrested with false passports, explosives, guns etc and we have to beg for them to be released.
They get released but their weapons are kept.
Apparently, they could just have easily got off the British boat that docked at rebel held Benghazi a few days earlier.
Funny old world, espionage!
Cheers
D
He who dares gets arrested by farm guards
-
David Johnson
- Posts: 7844
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
-
frankthring
- Posts: 962
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: He who dares gets arrested by farm guards
I am not sure, David, whether you are suggesting our SAS boys are
twits, or you just generally find their mishaps funny !
Military operations are fraught with mistakes and cock-ups generally.
That is within the nature of military ops.....and its nothing new !
I always like the tale of the army padre at Arnhem in WWII who landed
on the German side of the river and had to walk under fire towards the
British lines....Needless to say he was greeted with some surprise and
rib-pulling. He replied, off-handedly, "Well anyone can make a mistake !"
-
David Johnson
- Posts: 7844
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Frank
"I am not sure, David, whether you are suggesting our SAS boys are
twits, or you just generally find their mishaps funny !"
No, I have respect for everyone who risks their lives in the armed forces What I find funny is how governments sometimes react in war situations.
In this case, the apparent objective of the mission according to the person who authorised it, William Hague, the Foreign Secretary, was to make contact with the rebel leaders in Benghazi and have a meeting. What seemed bizarre to me is why they needed to arrive apparently unnanounced in a helicopter at night with a group of SAS soldiers armed to the teeth.
A navy ship, HMS York had been docked at Benghazi a day or two previously so why didn't the diplomats just turn up on the boat and get to meet the leaders that way. Or otherwise come across the border from Egypt to the eastern part of Libya held by the rebels, just as the journalists have?
It seems to me that it was only by luck that this escapade didn't end up in a tragedy with a firefight between the SAS troops and the rebels on the ground assuming that this night landing might be pro-Gaddafi forces.
I agree with you that the history of war includes a huge number of cockups but it takes a right cockup to get arrested and nearly killed attempting a night landing in the territory of those you want to help when you could have walked down the gangway off a ship docked in the main rebel held city a lot more easily!
Cheers
D
twits, or you just generally find their mishaps funny !"
No, I have respect for everyone who risks their lives in the armed forces What I find funny is how governments sometimes react in war situations.
In this case, the apparent objective of the mission according to the person who authorised it, William Hague, the Foreign Secretary, was to make contact with the rebel leaders in Benghazi and have a meeting. What seemed bizarre to me is why they needed to arrive apparently unnanounced in a helicopter at night with a group of SAS soldiers armed to the teeth.
A navy ship, HMS York had been docked at Benghazi a day or two previously so why didn't the diplomats just turn up on the boat and get to meet the leaders that way. Or otherwise come across the border from Egypt to the eastern part of Libya held by the rebels, just as the journalists have?
It seems to me that it was only by luck that this escapade didn't end up in a tragedy with a firefight between the SAS troops and the rebels on the ground assuming that this night landing might be pro-Gaddafi forces.
I agree with you that the history of war includes a huge number of cockups but it takes a right cockup to get arrested and nearly killed attempting a night landing in the territory of those you want to help when you could have walked down the gangway off a ship docked in the main rebel held city a lot more easily!
Cheers
D
-
planeterotica
- Posts: 7093
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: Frank
Maybe it was just a front to get arms to the rebel forces...
-
andy at handiwork
- Posts: 4113
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: Frank
Not a very efficient way to do it.
-
planeterotica
- Posts: 7093
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: Frank
andy at handiwork wrote:
> Not a very efficient way to do it.
planeterotica wrote:
Well if they was arming the rebels they could hardly do it openly, maybe they sneaked in a couple of missile launchers to bring down Gaddafi's planes and their time spent in detainment was actually spent instructing the rebels how to use them, there i go my imagination running wild again !wink!
> Not a very efficient way to do it.
planeterotica wrote:
Well if they was arming the rebels they could hardly do it openly, maybe they sneaked in a couple of missile launchers to bring down Gaddafi's planes and their time spent in detainment was actually spent instructing the rebels how to use them, there i go my imagination running wild again !wink!
-
andy at handiwork
- Posts: 4113
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: Frank
I doubt it was anything like that. More likely rotten planning on the part of the MoD and SAS top brass for what may well have been a legitimate attempt to make contact with the rebels. I suppose when you are used to absailing from helicopters in the dark and blowing the windows out to gain entry, it can be a bit disorientating to simply knock on the door in the hours of daylight. Same sort of gung-ho bollocks that got us into the mess that was/is Iraq.
-
David Johnson
- Posts: 7844
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Andy
Agree with your guess as to what was behind the cock-up
Yes, I seem to recall that Michael Gove had a jolly spiffing idea about using ex-Servicemen in the classroom to instill a bit of discipline into the school rabble.
Cue sir, arriving in the 3rd floor classroom through an open window on the end of a rope. Beats using the door and saying hello it's me for impact I suppose.
There's a whole lot of options really: blacking up and imagining you are deep behind enemy lines in the gym for the drama lesson; making explosives in chemistry; producing a sawn off shotgun in metalwork; how to make a niqab out of a bedsheet and some black dye in needlework; living off the land in the local woods including roasting a squirrel for home economics etc etc.
Cheers
D
Yes, I seem to recall that Michael Gove had a jolly spiffing idea about using ex-Servicemen in the classroom to instill a bit of discipline into the school rabble.
Cue sir, arriving in the 3rd floor classroom through an open window on the end of a rope. Beats using the door and saying hello it's me for impact I suppose.
There's a whole lot of options really: blacking up and imagining you are deep behind enemy lines in the gym for the drama lesson; making explosives in chemistry; producing a sawn off shotgun in metalwork; how to make a niqab out of a bedsheet and some black dye in needlework; living off the land in the local woods including roasting a squirrel for home economics etc etc.
Cheers
D
Re: He who dares gets arrested by farm guards
There's no need to be snide. If you saw the recent Panorama programme you will have seen ex-servicemen doing some very good work with kids who would otherwise have gone off the rails. They need a disciplned school environment and male role models, and it seems to work very well where it has been tried. That has nothing to do with this cock-up involving the SAS, so why bring it up unless you are just taking the piss out of the armed forces in a pretty ignorant manner?
-
David Johnson
- Posts: 7844
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Robches
"That has nothing to do with this cock-up involving the SAS, so why bring it up unless you are just taking the piss out of the armed forces in a pretty ignorant manner?"
If you read the thread again you will see that I was responding to Andy's specific comment which was "I suppose when you are used to absailing from helicopters in the dark and blowing the windows out to gain entry, it can be a bit disorientating to simply knock on the door in the hours of daylight."
And then in what I thought was a light-hearted way envisaging a similar gungo-ho approach to classroom teaching. That is the connection between my comment on ex-soldier teachers and the gungo-ho nature of the Libyan mission..
"If you saw the recent Panorama programme you will have seen ex-servicemen doing some very good work with kids who would otherwise have gone off the rails. They need a disciplned school environment and male role models, and it seems to work very well where it has been tried."
I didn't see the recent Panorama programme so can't comment on that. The relevant point from Gove's white paper is as follows:
"We will also encourage Armed Forces leavers to become teachers, by developing a ?Troops to Teachers? programme which will sponsor service leavers to train as teachers. We will pay tuition fees for PGCEs for eligible graduates leaving the Armed Forces and work with universities to explore the possibility of establishing a bespoke compressed undergraduate route into teaching targeted at Armed Forces leavers who have the relevant experience and skills but may lack degree-level qualifications. "
I have concerns about Gove's plans. The subtext of his plans is that our classrooms are so out of control that drastic military action is called for; we need more of a "boot camp" mentality in our namby-pamby schools etc etc.
Personally I think a hell of a lot of people underestimate how difficult it is to teach well irrespective of your background. A lot of people mistakenly believe that in order to be a good teacher you just need to know stuff worth teaching. To teach well is not an easily learned skill and I would be wary of a "compressed route into teaching targeted at Armed Forces leavers."
Cheers
D
If you read the thread again you will see that I was responding to Andy's specific comment which was "I suppose when you are used to absailing from helicopters in the dark and blowing the windows out to gain entry, it can be a bit disorientating to simply knock on the door in the hours of daylight."
And then in what I thought was a light-hearted way envisaging a similar gungo-ho approach to classroom teaching. That is the connection between my comment on ex-soldier teachers and the gungo-ho nature of the Libyan mission..
"If you saw the recent Panorama programme you will have seen ex-servicemen doing some very good work with kids who would otherwise have gone off the rails. They need a disciplned school environment and male role models, and it seems to work very well where it has been tried."
I didn't see the recent Panorama programme so can't comment on that. The relevant point from Gove's white paper is as follows:
"We will also encourage Armed Forces leavers to become teachers, by developing a ?Troops to Teachers? programme which will sponsor service leavers to train as teachers. We will pay tuition fees for PGCEs for eligible graduates leaving the Armed Forces and work with universities to explore the possibility of establishing a bespoke compressed undergraduate route into teaching targeted at Armed Forces leavers who have the relevant experience and skills but may lack degree-level qualifications. "
I have concerns about Gove's plans. The subtext of his plans is that our classrooms are so out of control that drastic military action is called for; we need more of a "boot camp" mentality in our namby-pamby schools etc etc.
Personally I think a hell of a lot of people underestimate how difficult it is to teach well irrespective of your background. A lot of people mistakenly believe that in order to be a good teacher you just need to know stuff worth teaching. To teach well is not an easily learned skill and I would be wary of a "compressed route into teaching targeted at Armed Forces leavers."
Cheers
D