egafd.com

and i'd be awfully carefull of throwing the phraze "moraly wrong" about,aswell.

I am not trying to say the effects of child abuse and animal abuse are the same. Nor am I saying animals would suffer the same phsycological effects as children. All I am saying is that if you try to use the argument (which you did) that animal porn is ok on the grounds that an animal does not know what is going on then a peadophile may try the same reasoning. I only drew the comparison because niether a child or an animal can consent. I am not saying animal porn is anywhere near as bad as child-porn. The issue is niether involve consent.
So no need to get aggressive. I was not saying anything about you or your tastes in porn. So what do mean by "be carefull how you use the phrase "morally wrong""? And how do you mean I`ve messed up? If people are allowed to dislike Max Hardcore then I am aqllowed to dislike animal porn. MH is much more natural than the stuff you are defending. The bottom line is anyone who enjoys the sight of a woman being penetrated by an animal enjoys the sight of her degrading herself. It is not natural to have sex with another species.

The trouble is, consent isn't always guaranteed - even in the lawful side of porn as it stands, we see this. The girls who do stuff purely because they enjoy it and for NO other reason are few and far between, I'd suggest. Why do most do it? Why do we do anything profesionally? For the money.

If you tell someone you'll get a few hundred pounds for doing something sexual they wouldn't normally do, exactly how consentual is that? It's not. Let's not run away with this ridiculous fantasy story that everyone in porn is just having a wonderful time and the state is some big bad censorship machine stopping everyone from doing what they really want to do. It's not. Pornography is a business. Simple as that. It exploits those willing to prostitute themselves for it the same as others prostitute themselves on a daily basis in their 9-5. I'm not suggesting it's any better or any worse - this aint a moral argument - I'm just saying it's the same.

When money and corporate business is involved, the issue of consent is much more a grey area then you would imagine reading some of the wildly vague and sweeping comments in this thread.

Having said all that, I agree in principle that there should be more freedom to allow people to engage in and purchase a wider range of materials. The above problem(s) are not ideal, but I'd rather have those problems then the current problems of underground stuff and looser regulations in certain sectors due to the self-rule much of the industry has to create when dealing with performers and the like.

Rather then less state involvement, I'd like to see far more, but less in the way of censorship and more in the way of health care, advise and working standrds and guidelines for that which it has made legal.

can you tell me where i said i like animal porn or where i defend it? all i ve done is point out the facts as i see them. you may asume i like animal porn cos my opinion differs to yours and im certainly not going to confirmn or deny as its tottaly irrelivent. and it can also be argued that anal sex isnt natural,so do you think homosexuals are freakish.choose your next closing comment carefully.again what are you talking about paedifiles for they have no place in this disscussion,what so ever. the topic is animal porn and no simelarities can be drawn ,so plase dont.the reason you find it morally wrong is because of your particular outlook on life. so at that point your stating that your morolls are supperior to others ,which i think youll agree is a rocky path.which is why i made the comment about being carefull concernig moralls.

for the record, animal porn really isnt that widespread in europe, just in the east and holland. certainly not in places like france, germany, etc...

Read the thread. I did not say that you liked animal porn. I said that I do not because of the reasons I stated i.e. animal not having any choice in the matter. This element of "no choice" makes animal porn different to all other legal porn available in free countries (i.e. mainland Europe). When a grown man fucks a chicen it dies. I think what this boils down to is different views on what rights animals should have and wether or not it is acceptable to use them for any purpose we like. If you believe they do not suffer stress or feel emotions (I think scientists would disagree) then we would not need laws to prevent them being housed and transported under emotianally stressfull conditions. On the other hand my whole argument hangs on the beleif that they do have a conciousness and emotions so it is pointless for me to argue with someone who does not believe that animals have any similar qualities to humans. Scientists have induced human psychiatric disorders in animals by placing them in abusive situations.

I do not suppose you keep pets but if you ask someone who does they will explain the similarities between animal and human emotions and personalities. This is not setimental shite ask anyone who works or lives with animals.

well im far to tired to argue,now. so we'll just leave it here. youve made it clear you know your wrong and i accept your appoligy. anytime you want me to correct you on anything just let me know. sleep well. and goodnight yer' blind ol' duffer.

Some people always have to have the last word. But I am glad you accepted that I was right in the end. I must go to bed aswell coz I have to get up early to milk the bulls ;.)

I trust you will not be counting sheep to get you off to sleep? You might make a mess of the sheets.

Night Night

no they dont! haaaaaaaa haaaaaaaaa!

Mr Magoo argument...
animals can't consent
children can't consent
Therefore you can't have sex with these.

consent is? Saying yes or no to a request (and understanding the request).
Joe King thought...
Can animals react to requests? (fetch fido, fetch!)
Do animals understand anything?
-----------

Mr Magoo's argument...
'I do not suppose you keep pets but if you ask someone who does they will explain the similarities between animal and human emotions and personalities'

Joe King response...
does a lion show respect when it chews the head off a gazelle it has caught? Does it go the funeral of the little baby boar it greedily split open and digested? Do lions laugh at John Cleese?
Do lions pass laws saying humans are not allowed to have anal sex?
Most owners of pets (dogs and cats) are stupid, they do not understand the behaviour or how to control these non-consenting beasts.