The Passion of the Christ

[DavidS]

The definition of the word pogrom by Caractacus is totally correct.

[stripeysydney]

I often wonder what really happened,i definitely think that Christ existed[the Romans mentioned him in their writings as well as the jewish historian Josephus] but it's nice to see Mel Gibson getting tons of shit off the Jews;especially after his last film"the patriot"portrayed the colonial americans as colourblind and loved all their black slaves. The american director Spike Lee said it was one of the worst films that he'd ever seen.
I saw a scottish historian on tv rip into "braveheart" saying what a pile of historical tosh it was.
But the one that takes the biscuit is "Mad Max"1,2,3 there they are in the outback, Australia,tryng to survive after a world war and no Arborigines!
You would have thought if anyone would have survived it would have been them.

[NOBBY]

Hi Terry,

Thanks for your review of the passion of christ, it really help getting a balnced non commercial review of a movie. I have one question:

How do you review a movie way in adavance of it's U.K. release?

Regards

NOBBY

[Terry May]

Hi Nobby

I'm fortunate in having a lot of industry contacts so I get invited to lots of previews and premieres. So I just like to post a review before the PR bollocks kicks in. Hope it's of some use and helps you decide what is and isn't worth seeing.

[Bronson Lee]

The amount of times I have seen those films and I never thought about the missing Arborigines , you would of thought they would have had at least one .... even an old wise one that points out how the white man is always at war to control oil .

[WillieBo]

'Much of what went into the Bible was decided at a conference around 125 BC.*'

Caractacus, I trust you are well.

You are right in that much of the Old Testament was available by the 2nd Century BC, so 125 BC is not far wrong. We know this from studies of The Septuagint, the earliest record of the Old Testament/Hebrew Scriptures translated in Alexandrian Greek in the 3rd and 2nd Centuries BC. Much of what was discarded is known as The Apocrypha. Those who used and quoted from The Septuagint and wrote the Gospels would have used these translations.

The Council to which you and DavidS refer may be The Council of Nicaea in 325 AD. But there was no Council canon or edict as to what would constitute the Bible. The book is a product of evolution and development. DavidS has summarised the main issues from the Council perfectly.

May I expand on this a little ? Constantine I organised the Council and invited the worthies from the Western and Eastern Churches to resolve two key issues and also to begin the process of Church/State relationship and structure. Relatively few Western Christian bishops or priests turned up. The very difficult and wary Pope Sylvester sent observers only. By contrast, huge numbers (estimated at over 300) Eastern Churchmen attended.

The two controversies were i) Arianism. The ongoing dispute between the presbyter/teacher Arius from Alexandria and his bishop Alexander on the nature of Christ. Though excommunicated in 320 for stating that Christ was subordinate to God, his views gained swift currency in parts of the Eastern Church. Local councils of bishops failed to find resolution. So Constantine arranged a full Council. Interestingly, although the Council found against Arius his theory remained popular, even with the Emperor himself and his family. Arius, condemned to burn, actually lived until 336. The heretical controversy over the nature of God and Christ went on. Some would say it has never gone away.

The second controversy was ii) The dating of Easter. Constantine was a passionate Jew-hater and found it personally offensive that Easter was celebrated at the same time as Passover. So another method was devised and agreed. Or at least until they changed the calendars in the 16th Century.

I hope this isn't too arcane or boring if you read this ; but it takes me back to some of my very early theses on the first Ecumenical Councils. My conclusions about the schism between the Western and Eastern Churches aroused no little academic ire, but those views have become less contentious and even more widely shared. But that's another story and VERY dull.

[Pervert]

This is what I need---a dedicated historian who will be aware of facts and dates and so on, and not someone like myself who pushes forward some half remembered thing he's read ten years before. Cheers, WillieBo. Hope all is well with you.

I can't help but think that the most important thing to remember about history is that it tends to be written by the winners, therefore the acts of the apostles and various other New Testament books ought to be regarded with some care. Much of the Christian antipathy towards the Jews, which was allowed to fester throughout the centuries following, was because they didn't desert their religion and rush with open arms to the new sect.

[WillieBo]

Caractacus, personally I find your views and comments very informative and enlightening because you don't seem to be laden with too much ideological baggage. Sometimes what we think are 'facts' can get in the way of stimulating debate. I only wish some of my colleagues and students over the years had your sense of curiosity and desire for knowledge. I've just spent the last month in Europe presenting and receiving academic papers and the level of debate is often far better on this forum than in some of these temples of education. And a lot funnier.

I agree totally with your view of early Christian theology. Through Paul (mainly) it was a very aggressive and intolerant faith. Many tend to see Constantine I as some heroic Christian champion ; but he was a truly awful and abhorrent man.

The early Ecumenical Councils may seem obscure yet their influence remains to an extraordinary extent to this day. As a specific example The Council of Nicaea gave us the Nicene Creed which forms the bedrock of Christian liturgical belief to date. I only hope it's of some interest to you and the forum.

[Pervert]

Informative and enlightening as ever, WB. Many thanks.