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And one for the anoraks.
Before the invention of video recording the only way to record tv(which was transmitted live) was to film the image on a monitor screen.
During the recording of Episode 2 of the Quatermass Experiment there was a fly on the monitor screen...I thought at first it was on my tv screen.

Mart

Nigel Kneale is an unsung hero of British telly. His excellent mid-1970s series Beasts is due out soon. But I'm still waiting for his adaptation of Susan Hill's Woman In Black to be released on DVD----one of the scariest things ever produced!

This is a good thread.

I find the whole ?Missing Presumed Wiped? thing fascinating (by the way, for anyone who doesn?t know, there?s a book of that name that deals with the subject of missing episodes of classic British TV, which I haven?t got but have been told is an interesting read).

I?d be the first to agree that the intentional wiping of so much great TV was indeed a massive great loss to Brtiain?s popular culture and was short-sighted in the extreme.

But I think it?s too simplistic to just dismiss it as ?cultural vandalism?. You have to understand the late '60s / early '70s mindset of those who controlled the horizontal and the vertical at that time:

1) In the 1950s a lot of shows ? including dramas ? were broadcast live and weren?t even recorded. So if you missed it, that was it. Gone forever.

2) Of those that were recorded, it was agreed that they would only be given a certain number of repeat showings, after which they wouldn?t be shown again. The reason that repeats were limited to usually just one or two was because the trade unions held great sway, and those representing TV technical staff, actors etc. were fearful that too many repeats would mean fewer new programmes made, which in turn would lead to job cuts. And so these ?limited repeat? deals were struck with the unions. But the net result of this was that many shows were deemed surplus to requirements after being repeated once or twice ? and it simply wouldn?t do to have ?old programmes that would never be shown again? taking up masses of valuable and expensive videotape and storage space.

3) Then of course colour TV came along in the late ?60s. So who (the reasoning went) could possibly still be interested in seeing a load of grainy old black & white repeats in this wonderful new age of (ta-tara-ta-ta-ta-TAAAAAA) ANALOGUE COLOUR TV?!

4) Although the first home VCRs appeared in the mid-60s, their price was well beyond the means of all but the very well-heeled or the occasional techno-buff willing to break the bank in order to own one. Besides which, the tapes they used were also extremely expensive, and so tended to be used and reused many times just for taping programmes that people would otherwise miss, rather than for keeping programmes for posterity. That?s why only a handful of home tapings have survived from that time. (Side note: a few years ago, there was much excitement when the owner of one of those early VCRs contacted the BBC to tell them that he?d found on an old tape in his attic an episode of the Doctor Who story ?Space Pirates? that he?d recorded off-air in 1969. Sadly however, it turned out that the episode he had was one of the episodes from that story that had in fact survived in the BBC archives: talk about ?Sod?s Law? or what!)

5) No-one at that time could possibly have foreseen the massive boom in home video that began in the late ?70s, much less the arrival of multi-channel satellite TV a decade later or the ?digital revolution? in the late ?90s / early ?00s. And for that matter the Internet, which has greatly raised the public awareness of and consequently interest in classic TV, including ?lost? classics?.

But we live in hope. In 2001, old BBC tape reels containing two episodes (?The Battle Of Godfrey?s Cottage? and ?Operation Kilt?) from Series 2 of ?Dad?s Army? from 1969 were discovered in an allotment shed somewhere in England. Long believed lost forever, these two episodes had never been screened again after their initial showing that year. After a special showing on TV over Christmas 2001, they were then put out on DVD.

I share people?s optimism that more classics will occasionally turn up from time to time. But we shouldn?t hold our breaths.

Great thread though, and a fascinating subject.

beasts was good ; i recall the one where all the rats got out .Caractacus wrote:

> Nigel Kneale is an unsung hero of British telly. His excellent
> mid-1970s series Beasts is due out soon. But I'm still waiting
> for his adaptation of Susan Hill's Woman In Black to be
> released on DVD----one of the scariest things ever produced!

more info on Flat_Eric wrote:

> This is a good thread.
>
> I find the whole ?Missing Presumed Wiped? thing fascinating (by
> the way, for anyone who doesn?t know, there?s a book of that
> name that deals with the subject of missing episodes of classic
> British TV, which I haven?t got but have been told is an
> interesting read).
>
> I?d be the first to agree that the intentional wiping of so
> much great TV was indeed a massive great loss to Brtiain?s
> popular culture and was short-sighted in the extreme.
>
> But I think it?s too simplistic to just dismiss it as ?cultural
> vandalism?. You have to understand the late '60s / early '70s
> mindset of those who controlled the horizontal and the vertical
> at that time:
>
> 1) In the 1950s a lot of shows ? including dramas ? were
> broadcast live and weren?t even recorded. So if you missed it,
> that was it. Gone forever.
>
> 2) Of those that were recorded, it was agreed that they would
> only be given a certain number of repeat showings, after which
> they wouldn?t be shown again. The reason that repeats were
> limited to usually just one or two was because the trade unions
> held great sway, and those representing TV technical staff,
> actors etc. were fearful that too many repeats would mean fewer
> new programmes made, which in turn would lead to job cuts. And
> so these ?limited repeat? deals were struck with the unions.
> But the net result of this was that many shows were deemed
> surplus to requirements after being repeated once or twice ?
> and it simply wouldn?t do to have ?old programmes that would
> never be shown again? taking up masses of valuable and
> expensive videotape and storage space.
>
> 3) Then of course colour TV came along in the late ?60s. So who
> (the reasoning went) could possibly still be interested in
> seeing a load of grainy old black & white repeats in this
> wonderful new age of (ta-tara-ta-ta-ta-TAAAAAA) ANALOGUE COLOUR
> TV?!
>
> 4) Although the first home VCRs appeared in the mid-60s, their
> price was well beyond the means of all but the very well-heeled
> or the occasional techno-buff willing to break the bank in
> order to own one. Besides which, the tapes they used were also
> extremely expensive, and so tended to be used and reused many
> times just for taping programmes that people would otherwise
> miss, rather than for keeping programmes for posterity. That?s
> why only a handful of home tapings have survived from that
> time. (Side note: a few years ago, there was much excitement
> when the owner of one of those early VCRs contacted the BBC to
> tell them that he?d found on an old tape in his attic an
> episode of the Doctor Who story ?Space Pirates? that he?d
> recorded off-air in 1969. Sadly however, it turned out that the
> episode he had was one of the episodes from that story that had
> in fact survived in the BBC archives: talk about ?Sod?s Law? or
> what!)
>
> 5) No-one at that time could possibly have foreseen the massive
> boom in home video that began in the late ?70s, much less the
> arrival of multi-channel satellite TV a decade later or the
> ?digital revolution? in the late ?90s / early ?00s. And for
> that matter the Internet, which has greatly raised the public
> awareness of and consequently interest in classic TV, including
> ?lost? classics?.
>
> But we live in hope. In 2001, old BBC tape reels containing two
> episodes (?The Battle Of Godfrey?s Cottage? and ?Operation
> Kilt?) from Series 2 of ?Dad?s Army? from 1969 were discovered
> in an allotment shed somewhere in England. Long believed lost
> forever, these two episodes had never been screened again after
> their initial showing that year. After a special showing on TV
> over Christmas 2001, they were then put out on DVD.
>
> I share people?s optimism that more classics will occasionally
> turn up from time to time. But we shouldn?t hold our breaths.
>
> Great thread though, and a fascinating subject.
>
>

More of the believed lost stuff might turn up if the BBC were more generous. I know of a collector who has a telerecording of a 1950's comedy show called "Strictly TT" starring Terry Thomas it is on film and the BBC offered the current owner a VHS copy in return for him donating it to them, he had tried to sell it to the National Film Archive for a tenner. It therefore remains "lost". As do several episodes of the Likely Lads for the same reason.

There is probably a lot of other stuff that might be unearthed with a little research, I noticed a clip from a David Nixon Magic Show featuring Chico Marx on an American doc about the Marx Bros. This was from Chico's estate, it was common at the time to make a recording for guest stars like him which were never in the BBC library to junk.So there is all sorts of things that might be in the vaults of ancient celebrities.