choke fucking: vote now

[joe king]

Matt: I think I've found a contradiction in some of your argument.
'Of course a big step forward would be to try and break the taboo nature of sex, especially in a country like the UK.'
Then in a later post you don't seem to sure about the transgressivity of porn. Is it transgressive or not? You don't think porn being transgressive (taboo busting) justifies the more unpleasant stuff(whatever that is). But if you are going to break the taboo nature of sex how else but with 'transgressive' films?
Of course you can be worried about the performers - but why 'vomit' and 'choking'? Why not unprotected sex? The AIDS test is not perfect. So you want to see condom only movies?

'Films are made purely on the basis of profit and return. '
How do you make such wild generalizations?

[Matt]

Thanks, Joe. I'm pleased to say that my arguments no doubt contain many contradictions, and that's because I'm rarely knowledgable enough to have all the answers - I change my mind when new information comes along or people cause me to re-evaluate stuff, like your good self. I reserve the right to be wrong

I was referring to the attitudes to sexuality in general in the UK, the result of which will surely be a tendancy to be kinder on pornography. I think regular hardcore porn transgresses society's boundries of acceptability already, without choking and the like. Infact, the really out there stuff may serve to be counter-productive. I don't think that extreme porn films are the only answer to break down taboos in attitudes towards sex, do you? There has to be other ways.

Choking and vomiting films will surely only be transgressive in as much as they break taboos within the industry. In society at large I suspect they will only serve to strengthen the resolve of those who are anti-porn.

The point you make regading aids is excellent. And you're quite right. I'll have to re-think that. What are you thoughts on it?

The profit comment is an obvious observation. Why else do people go into business? Porn is not a charity.

Matt

[Rebekah]

Hi Golastruda, I have made quite a few "rough sex" videos recently, last year i made two appearences for Max Hardcore, and had a really great time, i have also made 5 videos for Extreme both these company's do throat fucking, and asphyxiation are common practice along with the backbreaker move and a few others, we as performers know what is expected from a scene, either by being told or failing that, asking, those of us with common sense anyway, now i personally love rough nasty sex, i like to be choked pinned down have my hair pulled really hard ect some think i am "weird" for this but i can't help what gets me off, my point is this if you a performer who does not like this, then dont make these moviees, and if you dont like to watch, that's right you guessed it don't buy it or watch it.
Lots of love Rebekah xx

[woodgnome]

hoped you'd post to this thread but what's the backbreaker move, when it's at home?

does it involve lifting heavy equipment?

[magoo]

And if so could you come round and help me with my decorating? I have some very heavy boxes so bring Marino with you.

[Matt]

Hi Rebekah. Glad to hear you had such a nice time doing that stuff. I'm afraid the old "don't like it, don't watch it" doesn't really work. How do you know you don't like something unless you've watched it? And what about making sure that people aren't being abused or exploited? Yes, forgive me for coming across all 70s-feminist like, but I'd suggest you aren't really typical of most people when you say you like to be choked. In the stuff I've watched, their faces told an altogether different story. Like I said if we could get porn out of the closet and into mainstream acceptable culture (which isn't necessarily done by producing Max Hardcore's level of material) then maybe we could work towards reaching a state where people like yourself who are into this kind of sex can do it and enjoy it, and people who aren't don't have to without preasure on them that they aren't "fit" for the industry or any such other myth perpetuated by those with an alterior motive.

[alec]

Matt wrote:
> Like I've said before, comparisons to Hollywood films are
> totally inadequate. You watch a film with the willing
> suspension of disbelief. You know it's not real deep down yet
> you put yourself in a place where on one level you believe it
> is and enjoy it. Hardcore porn is not viewed with the same
> proviso. You watch it BECAUSE it's real.
>

To go off at a tangent here, what you say applies to gonzo and wall-to-wall, but I don't accept that no porn requires the type of suspension of disbelief one brings to a 'mainstream' film, or a novel for that matter. You aren't watching the right type of porn - but I know they don't make that sort of porn anymore.

Porn with a story does not have to be vanilla porn either. There were lots of porn films made in France and USA (even one in UK - Diversions) between 1975 and 1985 (roughly) which were real films but also had hard core sex, and sometimes extreme hard core sex and very taboo-busting *situations*, as opposed to taboo-busting sex acts. Such films were also made in the early 90s by the likes of John Leslie, Joe d'Amato and Mario Salieri and made by or released by Marc Dorcel. You do need to suspend disbelief to accept the story and the situations in Curse of the Catwoman (porn, dir. John Leslie) just as you do in Cat People (horror, starring Nastassia Kinski).

Or maybe I'm talking about erotica, not porn, but that's another argument.

[jj]

I refrained from comment here (listen to that chorus of relief......) because of the inevitable 'moral' quagmire and the inherent diversity of opinion. Just a few observations, though:
The 'softly softly' approach is probably the best one for the UK, given recent erosion of 'standards' both in porn and mainstream. I believe urination on/between partners will eventually be allowed as consensual, but doubt that choking/
slapping will EVER be passed, as we have no formal Constititional basis for it (say, as an expression of freedom of speech), and UK law will always precede EC law in such matters.
I too find the US trend toward real or simulated sexual violence disturbing, regardless of it being a periodically-recurrent phenomenon or not.
Pace Rebekah, I'm not convinced that some models I've seen are happy with what they're required to do. Some are young, in a vulnerable position and a strange place: it requires a certain strength of character (and perhaps even physical courage) to say, "no, I'm not doing that", and to walk.
As to the psychology of the males involved, that's anyone's guess.

[rich]

I find it hard to believe any girl would enjoy eating her own vomit...or any guy for that matter...any sane human being, where is the pleasure/arousal/eroticism in that? I mean its just sick really isn't it (or am I missing something?).

The fact that some people enjoy watching this amazes me further...perhaps these guys could only pull drunk chicks when they were at school and subsequently after getting vomited on constantly developed some sort of weird fetish. Why though they'd want the said young lady to eat it...hmmm...that I cant work out...perhaps my psycho-analytical skills arn't all that great after all!

Anyone care to shed some light on the attraction?

[jack]

>>>>

I agree totally with matt on this one. I mean does that mean we allow child pornography because theres a market for it and a willing audience? Just because I choose not to obtain and watch child pornography should I tolerate it's existence and prescence? I suspect the answer from most the people who post here would be a resounding no on that one (apart from weird guy maybe- who frankly worries me!)

But never-the-less the point is clear.. surely we must have some limits? All non-consensual stuff definently (i.e Minors,animals and rape) and personally I think the asphyxiation of girls and the eating of excrement/vomit should also be added to the list.

I take Bex Jordan's point that many of the performers are consensual to the act and happy to perform these things, but I personally think that we shouldn't be encouraging the industry to shoot this sort of thing. It pushes the limits of acceptability to a very dark place and in douing so simply gives the anti-porn lobby the oppurtunity on a plate to shut down hardcore.

I also dont accept that performers have a simple choice to take or leave this sort of work. As throat fucking etc gets shot more and more and becomes more commonplace it will obviously lead to many of the girls to feel pressurised into going further than really they'd wish. For example in the 80's anal was rare, most girls in the industry wouldn't do it..certainly not for cheap! By the mid 90's it had become so commonplace it was standard. Fast foward to the year 2000 and now even anal..which used to have shock value, is seen as fairly tame, if youre not willing to do it you wont get very far in the industry at all (unless youre the one in a million who looks like Jenna Jamieson etc!). At the same time acts that were confined to the extreme European loops in the 70'S/80's are now common, D.P'S, Facials and gangbang are very very common also. In fact if I'm honest as someone who watches and enjoys a fair bot of porn D.P's are also Begining to bore me and fewl fairly tame.The novelty value has long worn of and the excitement for me is now distinctly lacking! And therein lies the problem, in the ongoing tendancy to get harder and harder in porn to keep audiences glued, just when are we going to draw a line and set some limits. In one of Extremes latest offerings 'Cocktails 2' one of the delightful female performers pukes pisses and..wait for it.. sh*ts in a bowl stirs it up and drinks it!!!........Now foward to 2010..is that going to be commonplace, are we gonna see 'Ben Dover's filthy excrement eaters?'.. personally i hope not..just reading about it ws enough to make my stomach turn! Even more worrying....what about come 2015....when sh*t eating and choke fucking, like anal before it, has become tame and commonplace..I mean just what more shocking acts are going to replace them?..the mind boggels..If it goes on like this our kids are going to be jacking off to some seriously unimaginable sick n twisted shit come the year 2020 and hardcore anal will probably be so tame it will be shown on BBC1 in the afternoon slot just after neighbours! Max Hardcore will probably have taken over Gloria Hunniford slot on channel 5 and well have ron jermemy reading the news!

I'll end my nightmare vision of the future now..Im getting scared!