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Re: Our Wonderful Govenrment

Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 12:29 pm
by Officer Dibble
?But we need to do something.?

I agree.


"Where have they all come from, why do THOUSANDS of people have to travel south from Birmingham to Oxford or London, when 15 years ago they did not."

Well, apart from the general increase in the UK population (including extra economic migrants and 'asylum seekers?) the economy has grown massively during the last 20-25 years. That means more people buying, selling, doing deals, having meetings, and shipping goods. It also means that people are much, much, richer that they were during the seventies when, to have a car (any car), was a big deal. People can now afford cars and now that they have had one, and experienced the positive feelings of wellbeing and freedom that a car confers, they of course want to indulge themselves as much as possible.



"The improvement of motorway networks, in such a small country as the UK, has encouraged people to make journeys they would not have made in the past."

"Encouraged"? Hey, if someone opens a new motorway in my vicinity I don't automatically feel 'encourage' to go out and gratuitously drive on it. But I would definitely use it to go about my business and leisure activities, as it would be much more agreeable than sharing clogged urban roads with those dozy fuckers in their 1000 cc cars who can't really drive.

As I have just pointed out we live in a different world now. It is an economy based on personal mobility - and hey, we like it like that. No one wants to go back to the dark days of the 60' & 70's when you worked at the factory at the bottom of the street, a factory where your dad worked, and his dad worked. No one wants to go back to waiting to catch the bus and then have to sit in close proximity to a lot of nutters, divis, and smelly bastards, now do they?

What are you suggesting - that we go back to a non-industrialised, agrarian, society? Hey, we wouldn't need our cars and lorries then, would we? We could just sprint down the lane to farmer Giles's gaff and pick up some bacon, eggs, carrots, tats, etc. There are aspects of that idyll that are still immensely appealing. Yes, we want that. But we also want to keep our 21st century gadgets and machines. So, it seems to me that we have to look at ways of maintaining our freedom and combining the best aspects of both 19th century and 21st century lifestyles.



"MANY of these journeys are not needed and could easily be achieved by phone calls, conference calls, electronic based meetings or whatever."

This is true. But we like getting out for the day. Breaks up the monotony of the office, makes working life more interesting, less of a drudge. It we did not have that option we would feel hemmed in, trapped, depressed, irritable, and ultimately, violent.



"We need to do SOMETHING to stop this lemming like desire to drive all over the place by car when often if is not needed"

Well, you top driving if you want, but the rest of us like driving. The only problem is all those other people clogging the roads up and getting in our way.

Of course there is a problem here. But I see a simple answer. Population control. The UK is more densely populated than China. We have around 60 million people here and that is expected to grow to around 70 million in the next 60 years. If we are to maintain the quality of our lives, this projected growth will be unsustainable. There are already questions about water supply in the southern counties. The only way population growth can be maintained is by us all staying very still and using as little energy and recourses as possible - i.e., don't have a life. WELL, FUCK THAT!



Some NGO's have worked out that the optimum population for the UK would be around 30 million souls - about half of what it is now. Just imagine, the next time you are stuff in a traffic jam, how much more agreeable it would be if by some mystical means you could wave a wand and half the vehicles in the jam would disappear. The traffic would start flowing again - instantly reliving your stress and soothing your furrowed brow. Imagine how much more agreeable it would be if there were 50% less people in the supermarket on a Saturday morning. You could browse the shelves with a smile on your face. Because, hey, there would be no one in your face! You wouldn't feel stresses out and have a barley suppressed desire to twat the person next to you because they were breathing your oxygen and getting in you way. Yes, in short, if there were less folks here, there would be much more room and resources for us to do what we want, when we want. Now, wouldn't that be nice?



Officer Dibble




Re: Our Wonderful Govenrment

Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 1:37 pm
by Sam Slater
[quote]Some NGO's have worked out that the optimum population for the UK would be around 30 million souls - about half of what it is now. Just imagine, the next time you are stuff in a traffic jam, how much more agreeable it would be if by some mystical means you could wave a wand and half the vehicles in the jam would disappear. The traffic would start flowing again - instantly reliving your stress and soothing your furrowed brow. Imagine how much more agreeable it would be if there were 50% less people in the supermarket on a Saturday morning. You could browse the shelves with a smile on your face. Because, hey, there would be no one in your face! You wouldn't feel stresses out and have a barley suppressed desire to twat the person next to you because they were breathing your oxygen and getting in you way. Yes, in short, if there were less folks here, there would be much more room and resources for us to do what we want, when we want. Now, wouldn't that be nice?[/quote]

It would be great if we could half the UK's population. less stressful and a whole lot quieter!

Problems come about though because the main reason there are more people isn't so much immigration, but people living longer. Isn't 1/3rd of the population now of retirement age and over? That's 20 million Sunday drivers right there! We just don't fucking die any more. TB no problem, most Cancers, no problem, failed liver or heart problems, no problem! Wasn't the average age of death in Victorian Britain 45-50ish (working class anyway)? We'll be doubling that average in a few years. The immigration issue on top worsens the problem because most immigrants come from cultures who have bigger families. Living here, they'll live longer too.
While ever medical technology and knowledge advances, we'll live longer, and longer and longer.

** side note for ya: Some scientists have a good theory that the ageing process of body tissue can only go so far, before the natural repair systems speed levels off with the free radical damage Oxygen does to the body cells. Before 25-30 our repair system keeps up with the corroding damage Oxygen does to the bodies cells and we look, feel and stay young. After this age the body cannot keep repairing as fast as Oxygen is corroding, thus: we age. The corrosion -it's now thought- only goes so far though. Keeping this in mind, scientists believe that if a human body can survive around 115-120 years the ageing process will cease. Only frailty, accident or disease will kill us then.

As for roads and supermarkets....

Well it sounds great, unfortunately I guess less cars means narrower roads so extra shrubbery and trees can be planted, so you'll not see much difference in the long run. Supermarkets and the like won't sell as much produce, profits will fall, and so food prices will rice while checkout girls will be made redundant. The queues will be the same bloody length as now.

With one hand he giveth, and with the other he taketh away!


Re: Our Wonderful Govenrment

Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 4:28 pm
by colonel
It is just a European version of GPS, Dibbsie.

Has the original GPS been fucking over the Americans? Well, GALILEO won't fuck over the Europeans, either.

Re: Our Wonderful Govenrment

Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 4:29 pm
by colonel
johnsix wrote:

> Perhaps you like the authoritarian and unaccountable control
> now being exercised over every aspect your life, I for one do
> not.

This is a bit calmer. The EU is far from perfect- but please give some examples of what you talk about in the above paragraph.

Re: Our Wonderful Govenrment

Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 4:31 pm
by colonel
How is the phrase 'the local polish workers' relevant to the rest of your post?

Re: Our Wonderful Govenrment

Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 6:57 pm
by johnsix
Sorry Colonel, I have been calm it was you who appeared to lose it.
All i did was post a section lifted from the EU Galileo website about it's function in relation to road charging.
Perhaps you don't believe their propaganda either!oops!
Have you bothered to read it yet?


Re: Our Wonderful Govenrment

Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 7:01 am
by colonel
Johnsix- did you read the header that read 'Green Paper'?

It is a discussion and debating document- that is all Green Papers are, be they in the UK or in the wider Europe.

It looks to me like it is the work of some policy wonk or boywonder... these papers are frequently and wilfully misquoted as fact by UKIP/BNP- they aren't.

Re: Our Wonderful Govenrment

Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 7:27 am
by BeestonBoy
Thankyou for bringing this to all our attention Jaques!!

Re: Our Wonderful Govenrment

Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 10:45 am
by johnsix
All links here from the eu website

The Original 2003 policy document on road tolls;
Developing the trans-European transport network: Innovative funding solutions - Interoperability of electronic toll collection systems - Proposal for a Directive of the European Parliament and of the Council on the widespread introduction and interoperability of electronic road toll systems in the Community
Full paper in pdf here;

I commend to you part II. 'Towards a European Electronic Toll Service'


GALILEO Benefits
Direct link here;

or download pdf

GALILEO Benefits

"By integrating GALILEO with other technologies, the road community (users, car manufacturer, public authorities) can benefit from:
- advanced car navigation systems thanks to the increased availability of satellite navigation services
- reduced travel time thanks to the navigation information, demand management and traffic monitoring
- increased confidence in fleet management and tracking of goods in all industry sectors
- new ADAS functions thanks to the integrity of the Galileo signal
- more information for dynamic traffic management
- a standardised tool for road tolling ."