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I thought Sven did an ok job, not stunning but pretty good. He qualified for every tournament he entered, and got to the quarters in all of them. Not many England managers can say that.

I know peolpe will talk about 'the golden generation' but in reality how many truely world class players did we have

I agree with you and that was my point.

He wasn't a coaching god but he wasn't a total muppet either.

Never saw the interview, but Sven wasn't a disaster. Pretty average is more realistic, but fell foul of the very good start England had under him.

Looking back, England should have won the World Cup in Japan. We'd beaten the best team at that tournament in Argentina, and should have beaten Brazil, Turkey and Germany in the final. However, 100 degree heat and a freak goal from Ronaldinio put paid to that. Beckham was half fit, and we didn't have anyone better at the time. Ok, he ran out of ideas in that game against 10 men, but if there's any team who can play 'keep ball' in 100 degree heat, it's that Brazilian team of 02.

Wrong opponents, hot weather, and freak goal. Hardly Sven's fault entirely.

Euro 04 went well until Rooney got injured, and Portugal got through 6-5 on penalties. Hardly a disaster, just one of those things. Greece won the tournament - need I say more?

WC 06. We played shit..........but the 2 best teams in Argentina & Spain got knocked out in the quarter finals as well, and they played better than we bloody did! They must have been gutted. Were we the only so-called 'big team' to play shit and get eliminated? Anyone see Brazil at that WC?

I still think that last WC there was animosity between the players and coaching staff. First thing McLaren did was drop Beckham, even though he'd scored and assisted more goals than anyone else in the team during the last WC. Hey, he didn't play well, but he wasn't the worst player. Even Thierry Henry recently stated that England took Beckham for granted. Even when he scored, or provided a goal for someone else, he was having a bad game.

I just think Terry wanted to be captain, and because of Chelsea's record with Terry as captain, people thought he'd be some Brian Robson type leader that would gel the England team into a bunch of unbreakables. Beckham's captaincy record stands way above Terry's at the moment. England haven't improved in any way whatsoever.

I think it's obvious throughout the years to see that the best teams don't always do well in cup competitions. Whether it's the FA cup, Champions League, Euro's or World Cup. Luck has a lot to do with it. 5 shit games will win you the World Cup as long as you get a bit of luck, a refs decision going for you, and a penalty at the right time. Italy last year comes to mind.

Looking over Sven's record as a whole, he did ok-decent. Not exellent, or bad, but pretty much ok.

On paper he was the second most successful England manager of all time behind Alf Ramsay, but unfortunately that didn't translate when it mattered most and he wasn't even able to emulate Bobby Robson and get us to a semi-final. I agree, he certainly wasnt a 'coaching god' lol, he nearly always used to leave the day to day training sessions in the hands of Steve McClaren and Sammy Lee, he just used to let his assistant coaches know what he wanted them to work on with the players prior to them taking a training session. I prefer an England manager to have a much more hands on approach to training and coaching like Alf Ramsay, Bobby Robson, and Terry Venables etc.

But he did deliver us some good times too, who can forget England beating Argentina in the World Cup and Beckham getting the chance to settle an old score from the penalty spot, and I was fortunate enough to blag a ticket and be inside the Olympic Stadium in Munich to witness the best game I have ever seen England play when they came from behind to crush a shell shocked German team 5-1. I can remember coming out of the Stadium after that came and we all thought that it was going to kick of in the bars that night in Munich when the two sets of fans met. But the German fans kept coming over to us and shaking our hands, buying us drinks and saying that they had never seen a visisting team dominate and play such stylish, attacking football against their national side before.

Sven and England during the honeymoon period:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q33sNrncVmI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kH1eLptnIhI

Lots of "should haves and could haves" there Sam!

I understand what you're saying - but then all teams (not just England) can come up with their very own lists of "what ifs" and "if onlys" - which in the end makes all the postulating irrelevant because they all cancel each other out.

I don't think that Sven's record was especially "decent" when you consider the players available to him and the contract he was on.

A tournament win at Euro 2004 plus maybe a World Cup semi-final is what I'd have called a "decent" record.

Mind you, the way McClaren's going we'll probably soon be wishing that Sven was still in charge!!

True Eric, but looking back, Brazil admitted they were lucky to beat England in 02, and they said it gave them the belief to win it. You have to admit that Italy were definitely lucky to win the last WC, and pens are always a lottery.

I've just not ever seen England get any luck with a freaky goal, or a refereeing decision go England's way that wasn't deserved. It's always the other way around with having freaky/exceptional goals against us, penalty claims denied, and goals disallowed.

Everyone needs a little luck.

I'd still rather have Sven with Beckham as captain, than McLaren & Terry as captain. Nothing's moved forward, we don't look any better, and at least the 1st pairing have more experience.

wiseguy wrote:

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... which - let's be honest and realistic about it - isn't really saying a lot, given that Sir Alf was the ONLY England manager EVER to win a major international tournament.

Yes the 2001 away win in Germany was awesome at the time, and it finally laid to rest the Germany hoodoo that had dogged England teams for 35 years.

But with hindisght it was yet another of the countelss England "false dawns", especially in view of the fact that Germany then went on to qualify for the 2002 WC anyway and - thanks to a very jammy draw and the fact that they only had to play teams like Saudi Arabia, Paraguay and the USA - made it all the way to yet another major tournament final, whereas England did their usual trick of flattering to deceive.

Sam Slater wrote:

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I have to agree with you on that Sam. At one point it was as if FIFA had a special rule that late goals scored by any England player called Sol Campbell wouldn't be allowed to stand !laugh!.

No, I agree eric, it isn't really saying a lot lol, that's why I said that his success on paper didn't translate to the field of play when it mattered most, and for that reason I still consider Bobby Robson a more successful manager than Sven, having reached a semi-final of the World Cup.

Yes, hindsight is a wonderful thing, I came out of the German game thinking that we were finally going to live up to our potential in a major competition and show the world just how good our football really is, but I should have known as to never underestimate the ability of the England team to under achieve in a big tournament. But with all the disappointments we had with Sven, and there were many, can you remember a period of time when the team were playing quite so badly as they are now under Steve McClaren?