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"So why is Green Dave Green?"

A cynical political ploy, maybe? Or maybe because it's trendy amongst the urban elite in general? Really, this is a none-issue. There's no great mystery or significance about it. Forget it. Let's concentrate on more substantive matters.





Officer Dibble

?I really cannot fathom where you get your opinions of the 'working class' from, Dibble.?

Oh? I thought that would have been clear by now? I speak as one who was born in a slum. I speak as one whose dad spent his life working as a molder in a steel foundry and whose mother was a shop assistant in Woolies. I speak as one who?s been an engineer, construction worker, milkman, van driver, trucker, street trader and general moody geezer. I even speak as one who has ?fought the law?. I don?t speak as one who has (in living memory) had any teachers, administrators, Nobel Prize winners or other professionals in the family. In short, I?m an honest to goodness, bog standard comp, council estate kid.
I reckon that qualifies me to have credible views and opinions on my friends, family, peers and my life so far.


?Firstly, 'equality'. Seeing as 50% of working class people are female, why wouldn't they be interested in equality??

As them, why don?t you? Ask any checkout girl in Tescos. Everyone knows they?re always keen to spend time discussing abstract concepts like equality.


?Fourthly, 'racism'. As a white working class male living within a large Asian community?

?Working class??


?I know the majority of working class Blacks and Asians are very concerned with racism;?

Well, the ones I know aren?t. They?re to busy getting on with life and making some wedge. In all my years of association and friendship with ethnic type people the issue of racism has never come up. It?s only an issue if you want it to be.


?I've come to the conclusion that you very rarely speak for the working classes at all;?

Oh? Are you suggesting I?m speaking for the middle classes, then? What about my resolute defense of working class interests in the face of middleclass luvvie attacks on our values and culture? Hey, if there's someone here who is more resolute, indefatigable, and vociferous in defending the interests and aspirations of working folks, then point him out.





Officer Dibble

Officer Dibble wrote:


> Forget it. Let's concentrate on more substantive matters.


Doesn't Green Dave do that every time he 'cycles' to work followed by his big car?

Vote blue get green was that his original key message along with the change in logo.

You can't concentrate on 'substantive matters' as far as good old green Dave and his gang are concerned their face changes which ever way the camera is pointing.

BTW How's Boris doing in London? Noticed there have been a lot more murders but no Boris to um and errr his view on telly recently.

Sam Slater wrote:


> Secondly, 'gay rights'. This isn't within my field but I'm sure
> that the genes that decide one's sexuality aren't class
> specific.

From what I've read about this matter (to be honest: my knowledge is entirely superficial in this regard), one's sexuality seems to be decided by hormone levels during pregnancy. That, in turn, could be influenced by changes in diet etc., and thus there well may be a correlation between class and sexuality. But I doubt it would be a strong one.

[quote]Oh? I thought that would have been clear by now? I speak as one who was born in a slum. I speak as one whose dad spent his life working as a molder in a steel foundry and whose mother was a shop assistant in Woolies. I speak as one who?s been an engineer, construction worker, milkman, van driver, trucker, street trader and general moody geezer.[/quote]

Well, well, well.... It seems we've had very similar upbringings -apart from the generation gap- and yet I disagree with what you think about the working classes wants and beliefs. Generalisations simplify things and are quite useful, Dibble, but you're too liberal with them.

[quote]Ask any checkout girl in Tescos. Everyone knows they?re always keen to spend time discussing abstract concepts like equality.[/quote]

I never said checkout girls liked discussing equality. I'd say the younger generations of females just take it for granted. I would like to bet you any amount, though, that the majority would care very much if their equality was taken away! You don't have to continually discuss a belief or theory to care, Dibble. You must know this.

[quote]?Working class??[/quote]

Why would I lie? Just because I don't fit into your ill thought out generalisation, it doesn't mean I'm suddenly a liar. A furnace bricklayer for a father, secretary for a mother, born on the 'Manor estate' in the 70's of all estates! Does my background and history pass the 'Dibble Prole Test'?

[quote]?I know the majority of working class Blacks and Asians are very concerned with racism;?

Well, the ones I know aren?t. They?re to busy getting on with life and making some wedge. In all my years of association and friendship with ethnic type people the issue of racism has never come up.[/quote]

Ha-ha! Are we really having a serious discussion here, or what? I mean, just let me know if you're just arsing about because sometimes you're too subtle for me to be sure. OF COURSE they're not going to spend their time debating racism with you! Not unless it comes to the fore. Tell you what, next time you see an Asian fella with a few mates, call him a Paki cunt and test out my theory. I think you'll find I'm pretty close to the mark! I mean, I care about avoiding testicular cancer, but I don't roll my balls between thumb and forefinger sat on the bus! !laugh!

[quote]?I've come to the conclusion that you very rarely speak for the working classes at all;?

Oh? Are you suggesting I?m speaking for the middle classes, then? What about my resolute defense of working class interests in the face of middleclass luvvie attacks on our values and culture?[/quote]

Nope, you don't speak for the middleclasses, Dibble, and I never said anything to the contrary. However, just like you're views on the middleclasses, your view of the modern proletariat is pretty outdated and narrow-minded.

It is obvious for all to see that seemingly stating racial prejudice, and gay/womens rights as slight, trivial, insignificant things, you're view of the working classes failed to take into account that millions of those people are of East European, Jewish, Muslim, East Asian, Indian, African and West Indian descent. Now, a lot of these cultures may indeed look upon women's and gay's rights with your seemed indifference, or even scorn such ideologies, but they most definitely think racial prejudice, and equality, is important, and that my fellow forumite is a FACT.

Again, you absurdly, foolishly failed to take into account the undeniable fact that 50% of the proletariat are female (even the white, council-housed working class!), and that it is believed that around 10% of those -both sexes- will be gay. 10% may not be much, but it is a bigger minority than the Jewish, Sikh, or Muslim lobbies. Infact, I'd go as far as to state there are more working class gays than plumbers (less than 1 in 10 proles are in the plumbing trade after all). Ontop of that 10% of frilly gayness, you'll have the heterosexual familes of said gays that also care very much about their diesel jean, white t-shirt, crop-headed friends being persecuted, or unfairly treated by society.

All in all, you 'did a John Terry' falling on your arse in posting this 'They just don't get it' thread. You're only significant -if we can really bestow such a positive adjective- retort is to question my proletariatability! (it has no bearing on the debate anyway, but I played along through politeness and for the sake of laying out my cards on the table)

Now, I actually think you have a point -sometimes- in these repetitious, similarly-themed rants, but this time -again, Like Terry- you failed to hit the mark.

I've come to the conclusion that while we both have a similar background; while we both seem to have a little more political cognisance than most people of our ilk, we obviously differ in two very distinct ways: While I waffle, confuse and scramble my theories into a literary jigsaw, you are clear, concise and succinct; your eloquent prose, however, isn't backed up with any deep thought I'm afraid, While I -if I may be so bold- do at least have the foundations of a thought out, reasonable, fair, well-judged rationale, or philosophy behind my scrambled prose.

I suppose I could have summarised everything into one quick sentence (but hey, I need the practice!) and that is "As a fellow prole, you don't speak for me."

A good point, beutelwolf, but seeing as most other mammals -our closest cousins the Bonobo as a great example- practice homosexuality, I think it's innate in our evolution.

Mabye a debate for the future....although round here, it would only lead to fascistic unrest. !wink!

The reason for Nu-Labours current unpopularity is becuse the economy is fucked up and Brown just dithers and does nothing to ease peoples plight all he keeps saying is to trust him as he is the man to get the economy back on track.

Brown could ease peoples plight and get the economy moving tomorrow if he wanted to by cutting the duty on fuel, capping council tax for the next rwo years and stopping the utilities from ripping us off, these measures would put money back into peoples pockets to spend as they wish and the economy will grow, but Brown does nothing !sad!

I disagree.




Officer Dibble