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Max wrote:


My view is that the typical fan of these sorts of programmes are people who like real life TV - Jeremy Kyle, etc; read Heat and Hello magazines (and all the other ones that cover celebrity nonsense); and who don't have much of an interest in anything else. Mention to most of these people about the Lisbon Treaty or Global Warming and they would probably say "who's she?"


So what Max? People like those things. Thats why they are popular. if you dont like it then dont watch it or listen to it but tar everyone with the same brush.

It seems there is a lot of money in mediocrity. Who is to blame, the entrepreneur or the consumer?

People moan about certain kinds of porn but if it sells means there is a demand for it. Dont cast aspersions about the personalities that frequen the things you dont like because this makes you sound like a grumpy old miserable git.

I defend your right to have your opinion so respect mine in response.

Max you need a holiday mate. You come up on here moaning a lot that I puture you as an old man like Step Toe with a drippy nose and scowl permanently on your face.

You may well be a dashing brad Pit look a likey but your posts make me think of you as Step Toe

Nah, I dont think Cowell has had that much of an impact other than on the Xmas single. It's just another version of the variety show that has been around for decades. People get into it and make a connection with their favourites and vote for them etc etc. Maybe they buy the single and possibly the album and then it starts up next year and they move onto someone else. Meanwhile the previous year's winner tends to sink without trace.

The only ones that come to mind that are still around are Will Young who was strong willed enough to go off and do his own thing anyway, Leona Lewis who I think was already signed up anyway, Girls Aloud. I quite like Girls Aloud myself, but then it might not just be the music. Its too early to say whether Alexandra Burke, Susan Boyle and that guy, Joe who won this year will be around in years to come.

Below is the list of the top ten albums downloaded in 2009 on Itunes. Hardly a Simon Cowell influenced list with about half of them guitar/electronica based.

1. Kings Of Leon ? 'Only By The Night'
2. Lily Allen ? 'It's Not Me, It's You'
3. Lady Gaga ? 'The Fame'
4. The Prodigy ? 'Invaders Must Die'
5. Florence & The Machine ? 'Lungs'
6. Beyonc? ? 'I Am?Sasha Fierce'
7. Kasabian ? 'West Ryder Pauper Lunatic Asylum'
8. Michael Jackson ? 'Number Ones'
9. Black Eyed Peas ? 'The E.N.D. (The Energy Never Dies)'
10. The Script ? 'The Script'

I wouldnt call it moaning, its just about getting a debate started. Someone saying 'the weather is ok but it's been better' wont get a deabte started, but saying 'I've had enough of this awful weather' probably would. The glass-half-empty angle usually helps fire up a debate.

Steptoe just moaned his arse off. I saw one of the two movies they made and it said he was born in 1901 (I think) making him in his 60's and 70's for the time the series' and films were made. As he would be 108 now (if real, and if still alive) he and I are from quite differnt generations. I'm 5 years younger than Brad Pitt. He and I were born in the same decade.

It's quite refreshing and reassuring that Cowell's fingerprints aren't all over some of the most downloaded, or hard copy purchased, singles and albums as one might think. I wasn't aware until reading that list. He is still probably to pop music what Jeremy Clarkson is to motor journalism - in other words the most prolific person there is in that field.

I remember in the late-1980's when Pete Waterman was polluting the charts with that manufactured bubble-gum pop, where he and the other 2 who workied with him, just hired some drama school trained dancer and got them to mime to a tape on TV and hilariously called that person 'an artist'. He so took over the charts with that crap that Bill Wyman, bass player in The Rolling Stones at the time, started a grant scheme for young live bands, and gave them money to get off the ground and the finale each year was in the Royal Albert Hall where they would headline.

It was called AIMS (Ambition Ideas Motivation Success) and Wyman spent all his own money on this and helped many acts. Pete Waterman really harmed the music industry - what he did to it is the equivilant of turning the vast majority of gormet restaurants in London into a McDonald's and calling it 'cuisine'. His influence, and others like him, has reduced a bit but is still very strongly there and the ripple effect of what Waterman started 20 years ago will probably be felt forever. I can not understand how he has no shame over what he has done. Commercially sucessful, yes; possessing any integrity, no.

I hope there is a big backlash against all this pop rubbish - there was in America 5 years ago. The British band 'The Darkness' had big success over there, and it was said to be because people were sick of American Idol acts, who were all the same and who had very little to do with the writing or the recording of the music they were associated with, were dominating everything. Would be nice if a backlash stated here, and in the US again, and live guitar bands who write their own material, start to dominate again. I read today that the X-Factor guy might not get to No.1 this year, but no.2 instead. I hope that happens!

The current 'music talent' shows are first and foremost TV shows promoting mobile phone revenue with the voting system- the music aspect is just part of the set.

Hi
Although I dont personally see much X Factor influence outside the Xmas single, there is a backlash against that influence already.

http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/ ... 957324.ece

A song with a chorus "Fuck you I won't do what you tell me" seems a suitable contender to top the Xmas singles chart instead of this year's X Factor fodder.

Cheers
David

Cowell's a tit, but he's hardly ruined music. There's plenty of amazing stuff out there.

Last night I went to see Them Crooked Vultures - just to be in the same room as Dave Grohl, Josh Homme and the legend that is John Paul Jones from Led Zep was an experience in itself. The place was ram-packed, and tickets sold out within minutes of them going on sale.

The charts, especially the singles charts, have been devalued for years. I have no idea what's number one at the moment, and haven't done for years. I don't give a shit. I just listen to what I like - whether that be someone relatively obscure like or someone commercial (yes, I also like Girls Aloud. Apart from the fact that I'd love to do all 5 of them till their teeth rattled, I do think they do some damn good pop songs). Whether it gets into the charts or not has no relevance to me.

>Simon Cowell has ruined music...

Dont give him that much credit.

There has always been "manufactured" pop (Tin Pan Alley etc).

When the Beatles were huge what did US TV do....went out and "manufactured" a TV version of the Beatles called the Monkees.

I remember watching Coronation street in the 1960s some time (yes I am that old) and a young person joined the cast and they had him release a single, and he sang it (to camera) to close the show.

It shot to number 1.

Simon Cowell has just used modern technology like TV, mobile phones, the internet, plus reality TV, to produce a great entertainment package.

You always have to remember the X Factor is a REALITY SHOW, it is not a talent show. It is all about the artists, the panel, the audience, the behind the scenes arguments.

After all, how many previous X Factor winners can you name - Leona Lewis and.......

It is about REALITY TV, not TALENT.