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[quote]He told everyone this by saying without electoral reform, there will be no deals, when he said he would work with whoever has the biggest mandate, but couldn't say whether that meant in terms of seats or votes cast. He will do a deal with whoever gives him the best deal for him and the Lib Dems, and the country can go and fuck itself.[/quote]

I don't see your point. Whatever he does, why does that equal the country 'fucking itself'? Surely he thinks his policies are good for the country and so getting one party to consider these in a hung parliament means his intentions are good (regardless of what you think of the policies). I take from what you say that you think Clegg will just back the party that gives him the most power and influence, and that he doesn't care how he gets it. This might be true but it's a very cynical outlook and one that could be used on both Cameron and Brown too.

[quote]Put it this way, his party is the party of no Trident,[/quote]

Which will save the country billions. I think that's a good thing.

[quote]bending over backwards for the EU,[/quote]

Oh yeah, like straight bananas, being unable to work overtime and the death of English Ale...........yawn.

[quote]going easy on criminals and illegal immigrants.[/quote]

Please elaborate. Tbf to Labour, crime is at it's lowest for 30 years. You think the Lib Dems will reverse this positive trend?

As for immigration, the Lib Dems want to reintroduce stricter border controls and encourage the illegal immigrants already here to come out of the woodwork, join our society and pay taxes. That, again, is a good think, in my opinion. Or would you rather they stay underground, working illegally for shit money and pay no taxes whatsoever?

"By the time the election approaches the Liberal Democrats might be in the lead despite the media and despite the corrupt opinion polls."


Quite right. Agreed. All the more reason for him to stop rabbitting on about specific pre-conditions for a coalition and concentrating on trying to win it.

Cheers
D

[quote]More amused than bitter. Here is a guy who a few weeks ago, most of the electorate, if polls are to be believed, did not know from the geezer who works down the road in MacDonalds. However as a result of a TV electoral debate appearance in which he came across as a kind of good guy who you wouldnt object to having a beer with, without going into much detail about specific Lib Dem policies, the Lib Dems got a huge jump in the polls.[/quote]

That's true, but not his or our fault. Maybe we can both agree that this is the fault of an electoral system that makes it very hard to oust government and a Murdoch-heavy press that just don't think we need to know anything about parties outside the big two? I do find it hilarious that it was Cameron who was pushing for these tv debates, arrogantly assuming his more youthful looks and 'charisma' would mean he'd wipe the floor with Brown. The hight of arrogance was dismissing what Clegg might bring to the table. The toff twat.

[quote]Now I would like to think that this was purely down to the fact that people had read through his manifesto and weighed that against the arguments that the Lib Dems is a party that has had no experience whatsoever of running the British government themelves since Lloyd George, that they have expressed a desire to join the euro, have taken money from a major donor convicted of fraud and refused to give it back, appear to be the most fervent supporters of the federal EU and that though against Trident, have undertaken to replace it with an as yet uncosted replacement nuclear system and as a result of that decided to give the Lib Dems their vote.[/quote]

Some fair points, though the other two aren't squeaky clean when it comes to donations and the like, are they? I'm with Labour on the Euro: when/if the time's right. And I don't think the Lib Dems would make us adopt it against the country's wishes. Maybe I'm naive. What I will say is that we were specifically promised a referendum on the matter and that promise was withdrawn. For the Tories it'll be a definite 'no', which I think might be dangerous too.

As for Trident, I don't want it. It's too expensive and we won't even be able to use it without the permission of the Yanks. I'm not saying we don't need to update our nuclear defence system, though, and you're right in that the Lib Dems haven't said much regarding an alternative.

Let's be honest, many ordinary folk don't read any party's manifestos anyway and take their opinions from the red tops and friends at work/down the pub. So any extra votes the Lib Dems get from slightly ignorant people who're voting based on Clegg's performances on the TV won't be anything new.

I don't know why you keep mentioning the Lib Dems not being 'tested' or 'not being in government for x years'. Like I said, none of the Labour front-benchers had any governing experience in '97 and the same goes for Tory front benchers this time round. If we voted only for the party that had experience in governing then we'd end up with just one party forever more in no. 10.

They cant possibly win.

"Let's be honest, many ordinary folk don't read any party's manifestos anyway and take their opinions from the red tops and friends at work/down the pub. So any extra votes the Lib Dems get from slightly ignorant people who're voting based on Clegg's performances on the TV won't be anything new."

Of course, most people don't read party manifestos, but in the case of the Labour party they have lived through the last 13 years of Labour government so they have all of that knowledge. Many of them will remember Thatcher and Major or their parents can tell them about it, so they will have all of that knowledge. With regard to the Lib Dems and the Westminster government they have nothing at all. Therefore it is far more important in that scenario that voters actually familiarise themselves with Lib Dem policies. They have nothing else to go on.

"If we voted only for the party that had experience in governing then we'd end up with just one party forever more in no. 10."

I haven't said anything to that effect. The Lib Dems may prove to be extremely effective. I am not stating that this outcome is impossible. What I am stating is that it is a real leap in the dark, given that no-one in the Lib Dems party, shadow cabinet minister or whatever, has any experience whatsoever of running the British government solely as part of a Liberal Democrat governing group. So in short there are no past experiences in living memory here.

A fairly obvious view, I know, but worth reminding people, I think.

Cheers
D

[quote]I haven't said anything to that effect. The Lib Dems may prove to be extremely effective. I am not stating that this outcome is impossible. What I am stating is that it is a real leap in the dark, given that no-one in the Lib Dems party, shadow cabinet minister or whatever, has any experience whatsoever of running the British government solely as part of a Liberal Democrat governing group.[/quote]

Nah, I don't buy that. Ok, Labour have had the experience these last 13 years but the world has moved a lot, technologically and economically since 1997. I don't see how voting Lib Dem is a bigger 'leap in the dark' compared to the Tories. Even in such a short time there was no such thing as a digital economy in 1997, nor the Euro. Then there's the fact that no matter which of the 3 main parties you pick, a good proportion of it's MPs will have studied the same books, took the same exams and have been tutored in the same schools to prepare them for politics. It's just ideology and technical details that separate them.

Given all that I don't see a lack of experience as a problem. But that's just my opinion.

"I don't see how voting Lib Dem is a bigger 'leap in the dark' compared to the Tories. Even in such a short time there was no such thing as a digital economy in 1997, nor the Euro."

You appear to be missing the point. It's not just about what technology happens to be around at the time. Total lack of experience of running the British government is not, in my opinion, a positive. With the Tories, there are a number of people in the party who have plenty experience of actually running the British government and departments within it. They have seen that, done that, got the Tshirt, fallen into the pitfalls, found out what policies work, don't work and why not etc etc etc. In the case of the Liberal Democrats, the last time any Liberal party of whatever flavour won an election for the British government was 1910!

Again, I am not saying that the Liberal Dems cannot make a good job of it. What I am saying is that there is absolutely nothing to go on from a voter perspective in terms of running the British government other than their policies. They have zero track record in living memory in this specific area.


"Then there's the fact that no matter which of the 3 main parties you pick, a good proportion of it's MPs will have studied the same books, took the same exams and have been tutored in the same schools to prepare them for politics. "

Oh, if it was so easy! Read a few books, sit a Politics, Philosophy and Economics course, preferably at Oxbridge and away you go.

Cheers
D

"They cant possibly win."

If you had said this, a couple of weeks ago I would have completely agreed with you. I still think it is extremely unlikely for the Lib Dems to win a majority mainly because of the way the electoral system works.

Having said that, I have never heard of any party getting an 11% rise in the polls in a matter of days and then sustaining that. So we are into new territory here.

Cheers
D

I agree, I think if the next government was decided on votes cast, the Lib Dems would easily win. Problem with the Tories is that many remember them from last time, with their horrible smirks and hypocracy. Labour are still haunted by the ghost of Bush's arse wipe, Blair.

A typical Tory, in power, in case anyone's forgotten:
[img]http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-images/ ... nsSeat.jpg[/img]

Even if the lib dems got the most votes,they would still be a long long way from forming a govt because of the first past the past system. Labour has a 60 odd majority and even the tories need a huge swing to get into power. The election after this one could be interesting for the lib dems though.