Why Liberal/Conservative talks are going well....

[Sam Slater]

Calm down, David. Attacking me personally isn't going to help. They were just my thoughts.

[David Johnson]

"Calm down, David. Attacking me personally isn't going to help. They were just my thoughts."

I disagree with you. I make valid points And I am making a personal attack and need to calm down.

Forumites will see through this debating approach, Sam!

Good nite!
D

[Sam Slater]

[quote]I make valid points And I am making a personal attack and need to calm down.[/quote]

What?

[randyandy]

Been away for the weekend, since Friday, so playing catch up with results etc.

In a way I agree with Sam about Clegg not showing his cards but I don''t trust the twat, especially when even their own spokesperson didn't mention electoral reform, so more hoping it's the case than believing it's the case that he will get a better deal from Labour.

The election was a huge shock I was expecting a real thumping and it's noticeable that the big noises, jumping on Green Dave's bandwagon declaring landslide walkovers a few months ago have largely disappeared.

Call me Dave our great saviour MY ARSE

[randyandy]

Told you Sam

Although most are trying to say there will be positives out of this for Labour long term I am more concerned how fucked the place will be when & if we get back in.

Sad day for politics, especially for Lib Dem members whose Leader has let them down.

Some are already asking why vote even for your own party a question I was hoping would never be asked after Thursday.

[Sam Slater]

Labour bottled it on PR after dangling it in front of Clegg's face. It was all stalling tactics and they never really meant it. Labour have done good things but have become 'the establishment', rather than radical or progressive.

Can any Labour voter give me one good reason why a referendum on PR was so scary? They were scared of losing seats, that's the only reason I can think of.

[Bob Singleton]

Sam Slater wrote:

> Labour bottled it on PR after dangling it in front of Clegg's
> face. It was all stalling tactics and they never really meant
> it. Labour have done good things but have become 'the
> establishment', rather than radical or progressive.
>
> Can any Labour voter give me one good reason why a referendum
> on PR was so scary? They were scared of losing seats, that's
> the only reason I can think of.
>


Actually Sam, I think that there were plenty of people in the Labour party not opposed to PR but opposed to trying to stitch up a "losers coalition", which is what much of the country would have perceived a pact between the 2nd and 3rd largest parties, one of which had lost over 90 seats, as being.

After 13 years in power, with unpopular cuts needing to be made, it's actually not a bad time for the Labour party as a whole to regroup in opposition and choose a young, vigorous new leader ready to take the fight to the new coalition from hell LOL

I, personally, have nothing against Gordon Brown, but in this televisual age where we have people (wrongly) deciding who to vote for on the basis of what someone looks like in a TV debate (and those of us who have taken part in proper debates won't have recognised those 3 programmes as anything like real debates), then, compared to Cameron and Clegg, Brown looked tired and uncomfortable.

There's a big difference between "bottling it" (such as when Brown could have called a snap election in the Autumn of 2007 which he would have won) and admitting defeat.

[David Johnson]

To repeat Sam. Exactly the same that the Lib Dems have got from the Tories on electoral reform was available in the Labour election manifesto.

Yet to use your phrase "closet Tory" Cleggie decided to go with the Tories with diametrically opposed views compared to the LIb Dems.

Perhaps you could address the above two points rather than going on and on about Labour bottling, it a view for which you have no evidence other than a few Labour MPs who were wheeled out to speak against it.

D

[Sam Slater]

I take your point, Bob. That still leaves me with the impression that Labour made decisions that served the party rather than the people. Clegg knows all the dilly-dallying and bed-hopping with the Tories will be unpopular, but to his, and his party's credit he might realise that influencing the Tories from within better serves the British nation than trying to win a popularity contest.

Political suicide, maybe, but principled and admirable. Some will see it as propping up the Tories but I see it as babysitting the Tories! Keeping an eye on them, if you prefer.

[David Johnson]

"Clegg knows all the dilly-dallying and bed-hopping with the Tories will be unpopular, but to his, and his party's credit he might realise that influencing the Tories from within better serves the British nation than trying to win a popularity contest."

Trident goes ahead, swingeing cuts this year goes ahead, no amnesty on immigration, no commitment whatsoever on pr, just av which you said Cleggie should stick up Cameron's arse, no changes in foreign policy.

Is there anything left from your explanation of why you turned to the Lib Dems, left Sam?

D