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Hi Bob,

"This is the first step toward the privatisation of the NHS"

Agreed. This is a horrendous plan from the Lib Dem Con coalition government.

However, by allowing yourself to be taken in by Cleggie and his Lib Dem "radical agenda" and voting for them, you and other Lib Dem election supporters have indirectly led to the most virulently right wing, doctrinaire government in a generation being able to do their dirty work.

I note that all the people who were very supportive on this forum of the Lib Dems before the election and their "radical agenda", like yourself, Sam Slater, Mike Freeman and others have been totally absent in their comments on the Lib Dems role in this vicious government.

Even just a hint of regret would be something!

Cheers
D

From my recollection, Sam Slater has been anything but "totally absent in (his) comments on the Lib Dems". For the sake of all on this forum, though, I'd prefer not to open that particular thread back up.....

It is one thing to have a point of view and to stimulate healthy debate, but another to effectively blame some no doubt well-meaning people for some radical (utterly misguided, imho) reforms to the NHS....which have clearly been driven by a party they didn't even vote for.

I suggest we should all vent our anger to where we fundamentally believe it should ultimately be directed. Using others on the forum as surrogate targets only uses up the valuable passion and drive which could otherwise be put to more effective use.

And we all get "taken in" by politicians, to an extent. That's kinda just how the game works.

alicia_fan_uk

"From my recollection, Sam Slater has been anything but "totally absent in (his) comments on the Lib Dems". For the sake of all on this forum, though, I'd prefer not to open that particular thread back up..... "

I should have used the term "of late" with regard to Sam as the NHS privatisation and education policies have been announced in the last 2 or 3 weeks. No-one else as far as I can recall has made any comment as to whether they were or were not let down as a result of their vote for the Lib Dems.

"It is one thing to have a point of view and to stimulate healthy debate, but another to effectively blame some no doubt well-meaning people for some radical (utterly misguided, imho) reforms to the NHS....which have clearly been driven by a party they didn't even vote for.
I suggest we should all vent our anger to where we fundamentally believe it should ultimately be directed."

The government is run by Lib Dems and Tories. Cabinet responsibility dictates that outside those items where abstention is allowed in liine with the coalition agreement, all the measures put forward by the government are those of the Tories and Lib Dems. Those people who voted for the Lib Dems share the responsibility with those who voted Tory for the results of this government. I understand how many might feel totally deceived by the Lib Dems, but they still put the cross in the appropriate place.

There are those who use crystal balls to argue that if the Lib Dems had not joined the Tories, an election would have followed which the Tories would have got an overall majority. I prefer not to use total guesswork.

To quote your phrase "And we all get "taken in" by politicians, to an extent. That's kinda just how the game works."

Correct, but that doesnt absolve responsibility for how we voted. I voted for the Labour party in 2001. Blair and his cohorts took the country into an illegal war in Iraq in which hundreds of thousands of Iraqis died. I share responsibility for this illegal war by voting for them in 2001. I made a mistake. We all do. Some of us just seem to find it hard to admit it or express regret.

CHeers
D

David Johnson wrote:

> Hi Bob,
>

>
> However, by allowing yourself to be taken in by Cleggie and his
> Lib Dem "radical agenda" and voting for them, you and other Lib
> Dem election supporters have indirectly led to the most
> virulently right wing, doctrinaire government in a generation
> being able to do their dirty work.
>
> I note that all the people who were very supportive on this
> forum of the Lib Dems before the election and their "radical
> agenda", like yourself, Sam Slater, Mike Freeman and others
> have been totally absent in their comments on the Lib Dems role
> in this vicious government.
>
> Even just a hint of regret would be something!
>
> Cheers
> D


Where did I post that I had actually voted for them? Stop reading between the lines. Just because at one point I said I felt they were more radical than Labour doesn't mean I put an X next to the Lib Dem candidate's name.

Hi Bob
In a thread entitled Forum voting intentions you described your support of a range of Lib Dem measures and why you prefered them to Labour including the following

"Being a socialist, my choice is very clear... the most radical agenda, and one which stands up to economic scrutiny better than anyone else's, is that put forward by the Lib Dems. "

and

"The Lib Dems would scrap the ID card, not renew Trident and change the electoral system. They get my vote. "

As you know, I did not stand over you in the polling booth, but what other meaning should I have placed on the above?

Cheers
D

You may like to remind yourself of this posted after the election

http://bgafd.co.uk/forum/read.php?f=3&i ... ply_231753

which includes the following

"I said I'd be voting Lib Dem this time because I felt them to be, currently, more radical than Labour. "

Cheers

D

David Johnson wrote:

> You may like to remind yourself of this posted after the
> election
>
> http://bgafd.co.uk/forum/read.php?f=3&i ... ply_231753
>
> which includes the following
>
> "I said I'd be voting Lib Dem this time because I felt them to
> be, currently, more radical than Labour. "
>
> Cheers
>
> D


The above sentence does NOT state that I voted Lib Dem, but that I had earlier (ie before the election) said I would be voting Lib Dem (in the future) because, etc., etc.

Like I said... stop reading between the lines.

Ok Bob,

So when you say in a topic about voting intentions, about the Lib Dems "they get my vote", you berate me with "stop reading between the lines".

I would have thought a more appopriate phrase to use would have been "taking you at face value" i.e. when you say" they get my vote" I assume you mean," they get my vote". Stupid me.

And then when I point out immediately after the election to yourself and Sam

"You both despise the Tory party. You both said you would be
> voting Lib Dem and hear you are in the process of potentially
> seeing your vote being used to prop up the party you despise.
> Neither of you have even condemned Clegg for trying to arrange
> this deal.

You do not chose to say "stop reading between the lines etc " at all.

Instead you say
"I may have said I'd be voting Lib Dem this time, but that doesn't actually make me a Lib Dem!"

Right! I think this could be a start of a trend, Bob, throughout the country of people like yourself who extolled the virtues of the Lib Dems compared to the Labour party in the run-up to the election and now, only two months later, are saying "stop reading between the lines" i.e. you weren't with me in the polling booth.

Great!

D

David doesn't seem to want debate, he seems to prefer pinning the blame on something/someone and ridicule. That's his prerogative, I just stopped playing his game.

Personally, my opinion is that he's like too many in this country and treats politics like supporting a football team; too many people take a side and it's in their blood forever....supporting them through the good and bad times, etc....think and thin, and all that. I think that mentality childish and unhelpful to us all.

But I won't go into too much detail of where I think he's going wrong (or just trolling because he's frustrated at Labour's defeat). I thick the forum's had enough of that !blush!

Talking about me, you stated

"Personally, my opinion is that he's like too many in this country and treats politics like supporting a football team; too many people take a side and it's in their blood forever....supporting them through the good and bad times, etc....think and thin, and all that. I think that mentality childish and unhelpful to us all.

Again I think your lack of grasp of detail really lets you down.

On this thread alone, I have already stated that I voted Labour in 2001 and that Blair later took the country into what I regarded as an illegal war in Iraq. I felt that I had made a mistake in voting for them as a result and did not vote Labour in the next election. I made a mistake in voting as I did and I shared a responsibility in a small way for the actions of the Labour government.

This is what I have already stated. It utterly contradicts your paragraph above about me "supporting them through the good and bad times" and my actions being "mentally childish"

Cheers
D