The government has finally broken the BNP...

[Sam Slater]

Good lad.

[max_tranmere]

Sam, I hold the view that our way of life is being 'destroyed' and not 'altered' as such. Diversity is a good thing but when one's way of life is eroded, or even disappears, then that is not a good thing - and 'destroyed' is a reasonable word to use in that situation. To not hear your own language spoken in the streets of where you live, when it has been spoken there for countless centuries, when Christmas lights don't go up locally anymore because of 'cultural sensitivities', when most shops in your local area, and even the signs saying when the dustmen come to collect the rubbish, are bi-lingual, when all the signs in your local hospital are bi-lingual, and in some cases the signs you see are not in English at all but just in foreign writing, when a 'multi-faith' service happens in your local church at Christmas time - where an iman and a rabbi jointly do the service along with the priest, and 'Christmas' cant even be mentioned in the church, because of 'reasons of diversity' (try telling a mosque they cant mention Allah and have to have a priest and a rabbi next to the iman at the service and see how long it takes before you are called an islamaphobe, racist, bigot, and everything else), when the Nativy play in a school, which has had one annually for over a century, doesnt happen anymore, when Christmas isnt that big an event anymore in that school as the vast majority of the kids there are from other religions, when the majority of pubs in an area shut down gradually over a 10-20 year priod, as most of that neighbourhood is now muslim and they dont drink - when all these things are happening then that is evidence of your way of life being destroyed in order to accomodate newcomers. Everything I've listed here has happened in the region of London I live in, and many others too, except for the pubs shutting - that is an example of something that has happened in several northern towns and I've heard it said on TV and I've read about it too.

You are right in what you say that people arriving in a place and settling there for good should learn English. So many just continue to speak another language at home. I think Brits who have settled abroad should learn the local lingo, few do, and that is wrong aswell. Most of the 2 million Brits in Spain still speak English when ordering in shops and restaurants, and if I settled in Spain for the rest of my life I would learn Spanish.

Immigration IS out of control, as I said previously. 'Out of control' is defined as something that goes on that has no controls governing it. The vast immigration we have seen from eastern Europe has been about 70 times higher than the Government hoped it would be. They let any numbers come. The slightly differnt approach after the flood that followed the 10 new countries joining in 2004 went no further that the British embassies in Romania and Bulgaria (when they were joining in 2006) putting up signs locally saying it is inadvisable to come to Britain if you do not have a work permit. So they hoped (no more than hoped) less would come as only a limited number of permits were issued. They didnt stop people coming, only told them it might not be the best idea to come if you can not officially work. So large numbers came (again), way beyond the Governmet's rather hopeless attempt at trying to stop them intended. Many of them work cash-in-hand here so the numbers of those people were not controlled either.

I read yesterday that the population of Britain is likely to increase from 61m at present to 71.6m in the next 20 years - and two-thirds of it will be because of immigration. I notice you acknowledge that 'immigration levels cause problems in some areas of the UK', so we are agreed on that then. Sucessive Governments couldnt care less as we have seen.

You say that you 'detest a good proportion of what Sharia is' - so do I, and so do most people. We now have Sharia Courts in Britain and there can only be calls for an increase in their numbers and in their powers as more and more muslims arrive here and are born here. This can hardly be a good thing.

I'm glad you agree that the placards the muslim demonstrators were holding up at the two demo's that we've discussed were such that the people holding them should have been nicked. The fact they werent confirms a softly-softly approach from the authorities. Consider, as I said before, what would happen if some non muslim protesters did an equivillant thing on the streets of Britain. They would have been arrested, charged, vilified, and policiticans and senior police officers - and even supposedly impartial news readers (as I mentioned in the case of the BBC's Tim Wilcox) - would have been condemning them. What the English Defence League (the EDL) were saying on their banners outside that mosque in Harrow recently was much more tame than what the muslim protestors held up at the Danish Embassy and at the Geert Wilders thing, yet the wrath of the gods came down on the EDL. Everyone is mute when muslim extremists do it.

You said I must have got 'muddled up' when I spoke of how extreme the placard holders and demonstrators were at the recent visit of the Dutch MP Geert Wilders to Westminster. Watch this YouTube video of the protest from beginning to end, it is only 5 minutes long:



I watched it several times and made notes. You will see on the banners: 'Islam will dominate the world', 'Sharia the only solution', and 'Freedom go to hell' (that last one is particularly weird - if it wasnt for freedom, these twats wouldnt be allowed to demonstate with their placards. It is also very offensive to everyone else as many of our citizens died in wars for the freedoms we have today). You will also hear a guy saying, when interviewed by the media, "Anyone who insults the prophet Mohammed kill him!" and "We are telling the people of Britain that if we had an Islamic State today his [Geert Wilders'] head would be on a stake!". (This would obviously apply to anyone else in the UK who insulted Islam). A guy also says: "get Geert Wilders to come outside for 2 minutes, let the Police go, and see what happens!" Have a watch of this YouTube video and you will see that I was hardly 'muddled up' in what I said before!

Lastly, do I think your original assessemnt of me was correct? No I don't.

[BGAFD Admin]

max_tranmere wrote:

> You said I must have got 'muddled up' when I spoke of how
> extreme the placard holders and demonstrators were at the
> recent visit of the Dutch MP Geert Wilders to Westminster.
> Watch this YouTube video of the protest from beginning to end,
> it is only 5 minutes long:
>
>
>
> I watched it several times and made notes. You will see on the
> banners: 'Islam will dominate the world', 'Sharia the only
> solution', and 'Freedom go to hell' (that last one is
> particularly weird - if it wasnt for freedom, these twats
> wouldnt be allowed to demonstate with their placards. It is
> also very offensive to everyone else as many of our citizens
> died in wars for the freedoms we have today). You will also
> hear a guy saying, when interviewed by the media, "Anyone who
> insults the prophet Mohammed kill him!" and "We are telling the
> people of Britain that if we had an Islamic State today his
> [Geert Wilders'] head would be on a stake!". (This would
> obviously apply to anyone else in the UK who insulted Islam). A
> guy also says: "get Geert Wilders to come outside for 2
> minutes, let the Police go, and see what happens!" Have a watch
> of this YouTube video and you will see that I was hardly
> 'muddled up' in what I said before!

Jeezus H. (peace be upon him)! How is this indicative of anything other than the mass indifference of 99.999999% of Muslims to Geert Wilders and the delusional Islamist types his rhetoric attracts? There can only be a dozen protesters, if that. If this is the Eurabian vanguard the revolution is gonna be a long time a-coming.

[David Johnson]

"To not hear your own language spoken in the streets of where you live, when it has been spoken there for countless centuries, when most shops in your local area, and even the signs saying when the dustmen come to collect the rubbish, are bi-lingual, when all the signs in your local hospital are bi-lingual, and in some cases the signs you see are not in English at all but just in foreign writing"

Word of advice, Max, don't go to North Wales, you'd hate it!
And as for the Methodist chapels, don't get me started....difficult to tell who's God and who's the Devil when you look at that architecture.

Cheers
David

[David Johnson]

I'd prefer, slightly humorous, tongue in cheek response, but valid. Whats so terrible about bilingual signs? It is practised in many countries, Wales, Belgium, Canada etc. etc.

Put yourself in the shoes of a Spaniard living on the Costa del Sol. Not only do they have to put up with millions of tourists, many from the UK who can't speak a word of Spanish apart from asking for a couple of beers and signs only in English all over the place. Even worse they have hundreds of thousands of Brits living there all year round.

So what's the effect on the Spanish. Is their culture destroyed? Do they start eating a fried breakfast and watching Coronation Street? No they carry on doing their thing, eating with the family late at night at a local restaurant with their kids playing around the table, listening to their own Spanish TV programs, watching Barca and Real etc, and having a snifter in a cafe in the morning if they have time.

Do they spend all their time moaning about everything being the fault of these foreigners? I dont think so.

So whats the problem here? Are yes, it's the "wogs" that the BNP talks about.

Cheers
D

[Sarah Kelly]

Yes the Bnp have a million "Democratic" votes but like hitler and mein kampf, griffin has distilled what the bnp say so much ,i wonder how many of those voters would recoil in horror at what he /his party REally stand for! The joke on us is,..... the million people that voted for the Bnp did so because a) they stood on the more appealing platform of "identity" as oppossed to playing the race card and b) becuase our totally useless political parties refuse to even discuss immigration ( because they may be percieved as racist..and not being a good european) but it is a real concern to alot of people (a million,minimum,at the last count) and hence this idiot (Griffin,not me) getting the veneer of respectability...................... The guys a racist,anti semitic homophobe who i hope gets exposed tonight as exactly that.........and,if we cant even discuss racism witout fear of being called rascist,how on earth can we begin to tackle it....

[Sam Slater]

[quote]Sam, I hold the view that our way of life is being 'destroyed' and not 'altered' as such. Diversity is a good thing but when one's way of life is eroded, or even disappears, then that is not a good thing - and 'destroyed' is a reasonable word to use in that situation.[/quote]

Max, you cannot claim 'destroyed' is a more accurate and reasonable description of what's happening to the British way of life -whatever that is- than 'changed' for reasons I've already expressed. Lets take the definition of 'destroyed':

destroy: 1. To ruin completely; spoil. 2. To tear down or break up; demolish. 3. To do away with; put an end to. 4. To kill. 5. To subdue or defeat completely; crush. 6. To render useless or ineffective.[/quote]

Tell me what part of the British way of life is being destroyed where Muslims are the sole cause.

[quote]when Christmas lights don't go up locally anymore because of 'cultural sensitivities',....[/quote]

Well, as a 33 year old white male that lived in a Muslim community from the age of 7 until last year I don't think I'd be advancing out of my comfort zone in telling you that Muslims DO NOT HAVE A PROBLEM WITH CHRISTMAS. If you know anything about the Quran you'll know that Jesus is a prophet of God, and thus 'holy' in Islam. In fact, Jesus is mentioned more times in the Quran than Mohammed. That, Max, is a fact. Any council that uses 'cultural sensitivities' as the reason for not erecting Christmas decorations is either lying, ignorant or completely stupid. That's not to say some Muslims might complain about councils not decorating for Eid. The trouble is, Max, out of 10,000 Muslims in a given city, it only takes 4 or 5 to complain about Christmas for a journalist to get a story with the headline "Muslims offended by Christmas!" Your obvious mistake is taking a minority view and making it the view of everyone else of the same culture/religion; it's called generalising and it's wrong.

[quote]when most shops in your local area, and even the signs saying when the dustmen come to collect the rubbish, are bi-lingual,...[/quote]

Wow. Let me guess: you try and read the Urdu signs and end up at the library instead of the market? You go out for some pasta and chicken only to come home with Jordan's new autobiography which means you end up starving half to death? Grow up, Max.

[quote]when the majority of pubs in an area shut down gradually over a 10-20 year priod, as most of that neighbourhood is now muslim and they dont drink - when all these things are happening then that is evidence of your way of life being destroyed in order to accomodate newcomers.[/quote]

Pubs in the country (where people are mainly white) and in white areas are shutting down too. Pubs closing down has more to do with them having to compete with cheaper alcohol at major supermarkets and other forms of entertainment. The internet, cable and satellite tv, widescreen tvs, blu-ray and dvd, playstation 3s, wiis and xbox360s are all competing for your spare time where as 20-30 years ago this wasn't the case so much. Also because most of the population drive cars these days it's easier for people to spend evenings in restaurants, cinemas and sports events, mid-week. Not that people didn't do these things in the past, it's just more popular amongst the working classes now than before where the only form of socialising people did was visiting a 'local'. There is evidence that as the number of restaurants rises in a city, along with access to cheap alcohol from supermarkets, the number of public houses goes down. Our culture and way of life has been affected more by technology and pure capitalism than Muslims, Max. The evidence is there if you care to study it.

[quote]Immigration IS out of control, as I said previously. 'Out of control' is defined as something that goes on that has no controls governing it. The vast immigration we have seen from eastern Europe has been about 70 times higher than the Government hoped it would be. They let any numbers come.[/quote]

No it isn't. Your last sentence undermines your whole point. 'They let any numbers come.' Letting something means that decision was a choice. Someone, somewhere is 'deciding' and thus controlled. Even if that decision is to use less control it is a decision and to make that decision you'd have to be in a position of control. Even if you're just taking the numbers of immigrants and speaking in metaphorical terms, like I said in my previous post, under 0.5% of the total population cannot be considered out of control. If that was a reasonable description then you'd also have to say that someone who burnt their toast one day had an 'out of control' house fire, or, reiterating my pest analogy, that a whole estate with only 3-4 mice would be an 'out of control' pest problem. You've not really given any reasonable explanation, or shown me any evidence why the terms 'destroyed' and 'out of control' are fair. They're complete exaggerations in reality.

[quote]You said I must have got 'muddled up' when I spoke of how extreme the placard holders and demonstrators were at the recent visit of the Dutch MP Geert Wilders to Westminster. Watch this YouTube video of the protest from beginning to end, it is only 5 minutes long:[/quote]

Yes, I did say you must have been 'muddled up' and I was being generous. You clearly told me that there were placards calling for a beheading at the Geert Wilders protests and when I asked you to show proof you gave a link to a picture of a protest that happened years ago.

As for the youtube link: I watched it. It wasn't nice. What they implied wasn't nice. They were clearly Islamic extremists and wanted this country to become an Islamic state, but they weren't great in number. I'm not a lawyer but if those implications are illegal I'd expect the relevant authorities to take action. I don't understand how these events strengthen your beliefs that the British way of life is being 'destroyed', nor how immigration is 'out of control', but what that clip did highlight, for me, was how Islamic extremists, talking to a reporter that, I assume, was working for some agency that serves Muslim communities in the UK, and yet................and yet, Max, they were speaking in English! LOL!

[max_tranmere]

Sam, I read every word of your reply but I stand by all the things I have said in my last post.