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Abu Hamza

i believe in live and let live, but i do have some problems in some shops in derby where i live because, being largely deaf, i rely on lip reading to an extent and some of the local shops are run by muslims and the ladies who are there wear veils. it does lead to some confusion.

biffalo wrote:

> Abu Hamza

Yeah, but he's in prison. So much for allowing Muslims to get away with blah blah...

And rightly so, but prior to that he was allowed to stand in London streets spouting his racist, violent spite while British police stood by 'protecting' him.
All the blah blah blah in this thread has come from you Strictly, obviously staright from the Polly Toynbee column in the Guardian - the paper for political naivetes, and the politics of 'Imagine' and Blue Mink.
Altogether now, (sing up Strictly) 'What we need is a great big melting pot'

?if they wanna wear that stuff that's fine - do it in your country!?

Hey, I love that sentiment!

The trouble with this "sentiment" is that for the majority of muslims in the UK- this IS their country. They were born here, went to school here, speak english as their first language (often to a higher standard than I have often experienced with some white "classic" brits) and contribute to the society at every level- and if you disbelieve that I suggest you look at professional society membership lists, or go to your local hospital and ask to see a doctor, or book an appointment with your dentist, lawyer, accountant- any profession.

There's also the argument that if they choose to live here, they should accept our culture. I believe one respondent put it best- 'when in Rome...'. But isn't this their culture too now? Can't they put their own distinctive (and it is certainly that!) mark on it? The idea that culture is a monotone to be accepted rather than something that changes and adapts to the people in it should mean we're back in the feudal system spitting on people lower than us and licking the boots of anyone a penny richer. But thankfully our culture evolved.

From my understanding of Islamic Law, women that wear a veil are permitted to remove in circumstances that require her identity to be proven- so there should be no problem with removing it in a bank to withdraw money, or when using a travel card on the underground or any of the other hundreds of deals we transact a week. But if she wants to wear it in ASDA who cares? Leave her be.

I have many Muslim friends, and none who I know have wives or mothers or sisters who veil- and they all tell me that it's the choice of their wife etc whether to wear it and they don't. And from what they tell me, it is usually these women themselves who wish to veil- usually they admit with an "I'm holier than thou" attitude- but by their choice nonetheless. "Brainwashing" doesn't appear to have come into it.

My first post is rather long isn't it? Sorry!

Oh I would imagine! Especially since you say it is "very white". I see I'm gon have to get a road map of the UK being a truck driver here in the US myself.

Hi there, intrigued.

First of all I must say I?m puzzled as to why you have addressed these questions to me? If you had read all the thread (which I?m sure you have) you would be aware that it was LOUISE who expressed the sentiment that those who wish to do Islamic stuff should bugger off to somewhere more conducive to their Islamic tastes than our predominantly Christian/Secular society. I was just (metaphorically) nodding in agreement. So, could this be a manifestation of the ?Does he (she) take sugar?? syndrome?

Anyhow, I too have very good friends and associates amongst the Muslim community and I am well aware of their talents and contribution to our society. But there is no conflict here with the sentiments I expressed sympathy with and my admiration and friendship with the Muslims I know and hang out with. Simply because they embrace the UK and all the advantages, opportunities and benefits associated with our way of life here in the UK. They love it, and have about as much time for any medieval, religious, hocus, frigging, pocus as do the vast majority of the indigenous ?Christian? population. They aren?t interested in all this Al Queda, burka, mad Mullah cobblers. They just want to get on and make enough money to have a very agreeable standard of living here in the UK. They have a positive outlook on life.

I?m sure it?s true that all the Muslim women you know of who wear a veil do so by choice ? but what of those who have no choice? What of those who are obliged to by their male relatives? You seem to have sidestepped this question. I?ll be frank. I don?t like burkas, veils, hijabs and all the rest of it. I won?t pretend. I find them ugly, creepy, absurd, idiotic, and mildly offensive to my sensibilities ? though of course I wouldn?t deny anyone the choice of wearing one for those reasons alone. However, there are other things to consider to do with confirming identity, the oppression of Muslim women, the undesirable and unhelpful separation of cultures, as well as wider issues of medieval Muslim values gaining traction in our (for now) liberal secular society. If we give in on these sorts of things now ? in time it might well lead to porn fans, gay boys, lezzies and all the rest being stoned of hanged down at the mall (maybe outside Mark & Sparks!).

So, t?fuck with that, I say. It?s quite simple - if you want to come into our house you have to respect our rules and our way of doing things, ?cause we like the way things are and we ain?t changin? to suit anyone. In fact, those who want to come here should have to demonstrate that they want to buy into our whole way of life ? not just the bits that suit them. If not, somwehre down the line, the disgruntled and resentful will cause bollocks in our midst (as in 7/7).

A long first post, intrigued. But interesting, reasonable, rational, well written and respectful. Not things one can say about many other posts.



Officer Dibble

Just in case anyone missed this, well worth clicking the watch interview button!