I respect your opinion and you are speaking from an authoritative position. However - you cannot rubbish what I'm saying. You cannot say that I have the risks out of all perspective... I have said several times that HIV isn't the only risk and that HIV isn't happy once it meets the atmosphere...
What cannot be denied is the science between they eye and infections. I'm not claiming to have the answers and I'm not giving out inappropriate or misguided advice... There are no hard and fast facts on this one - all we can go on is the science - and science says that the eye IS a potential route for infection.
At the end of the day - you take a level of risk you feel acceptable with. In so far as I am concerned, in so far as the evidence stands at the moment - I think it's a risk too far... but that's my opinion. Professionals in this industry should be doing it as safely as possible - and that means exercising caution where grey areas are concerned...
Dililema
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IdolDroog
Re: Dililema
sorry i havent read all of this thread, and slightly OT but why is "cream pie" a "REAL NO NO" ?? i saw luna lane one once and nearly threw up just made me feel really sick...couldnt rewatch it,....yet its not that big a deal really...anyone kno why its not popularrr
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eC
Re: Dililema
Having worked with several professional adult actresses over the last few weeks, I can say the general feeling amongst them all (and the subject of bukkake has come up pretty much in every conversation with each of the girls) is that they all are pretty much anti-bukkake. Some do not want to ever try it (pretty much for all the health reasons stated above), and those that had tried it said that they did not like the experience and were not interested in ever doing it again.
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Toby
Hypocracy
Well, my last post got deleted so let's be a little more ambiguous this time.
This thread is interesting as it has a lot of people saying one thing but still doing the complete opposite. There is a lot of scaremongering, hypocracy and genuine bull floating around, and part of me believes it's part of a tactic to scare people.
If these girls will only work with people with full STD / HIV certificates, will they ask the same for their forthcoming appearances at parties down South?
Will the tell everyone before they attend that they will not be offering a "porn star experience"? I
Also, don't HIV tests have to be stated during any insurance (medical or personal). As lots of guys who attend are married or involved, I can't see them getting a test simply for the reason they don't want their wife / girlfriend to know.
It's good news for professional male stars but a sad day for amateurs.
Toby
This thread is interesting as it has a lot of people saying one thing but still doing the complete opposite. There is a lot of scaremongering, hypocracy and genuine bull floating around, and part of me believes it's part of a tactic to scare people.
If these girls will only work with people with full STD / HIV certificates, will they ask the same for their forthcoming appearances at parties down South?
Will the tell everyone before they attend that they will not be offering a "porn star experience"? I
Also, don't HIV tests have to be stated during any insurance (medical or personal). As lots of guys who attend are married or involved, I can't see them getting a test simply for the reason they don't want their wife / girlfriend to know.
It's good news for professional male stars but a sad day for amateurs.
Toby
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golostruda
Re: Dililema
Erm, I've only just logged on and as there are over a hundred posts in this thread, I can't go through them, so I assume (hope) the following has already been stated, but if not, here goes:
1. HIV tests are no guarantee of non-infection. The time it takes the infection to develop and the gap (whether it's three months or three hours) between testing and filming means that ANYONE with a clean HIV certificate, no matter how recent, can just as easily have the virus.
2. Bukkake = oral sex which is something like 10,000 times safer than vaginal sex and a million times safer than anal sex. Providing the woman doesn't have cuts/sores on her mouth (where the virus can enter the bloodstream) it is very difficult to catch it through oral as the virus dies within milliseconds of leaving the penis and saliva is a natural antibacterial agent. Certainly having anal sex with someone with a full HIV test all-clear is MUCH MORE LIKELY TO RESULT IN INFECTION than having oral sex with someone who actually has the virus.
3. People who have many sexual partners are far more likely to contract HIV/AIDS, no matter what industry they work in. It seems this is something that has just recently started worrying you. Firstly, how come it took so long (blase, happy-go-lucky, ill-informed)? Secondly, perhaps you should consider a career change.
No offence - you are one of my fave pornsters - but this "moment of clarity" seems a little strange. Bukkake is not a major risk. Shagging around without condoms (regardless of HIV certificates), especially anally, is.
Simple statistics: People who work in coal mines stand a far higher than average chance of contracting respiratory illnesses, people who work in the sex industry stand a far higher than average change of contracting STDs. Sad but true, and (I would have thought) fairly obvious.
1. HIV tests are no guarantee of non-infection. The time it takes the infection to develop and the gap (whether it's three months or three hours) between testing and filming means that ANYONE with a clean HIV certificate, no matter how recent, can just as easily have the virus.
2. Bukkake = oral sex which is something like 10,000 times safer than vaginal sex and a million times safer than anal sex. Providing the woman doesn't have cuts/sores on her mouth (where the virus can enter the bloodstream) it is very difficult to catch it through oral as the virus dies within milliseconds of leaving the penis and saliva is a natural antibacterial agent. Certainly having anal sex with someone with a full HIV test all-clear is MUCH MORE LIKELY TO RESULT IN INFECTION than having oral sex with someone who actually has the virus.
3. People who have many sexual partners are far more likely to contract HIV/AIDS, no matter what industry they work in. It seems this is something that has just recently started worrying you. Firstly, how come it took so long (blase, happy-go-lucky, ill-informed)? Secondly, perhaps you should consider a career change.
No offence - you are one of my fave pornsters - but this "moment of clarity" seems a little strange. Bukkake is not a major risk. Shagging around without condoms (regardless of HIV certificates), especially anally, is.
Simple statistics: People who work in coal mines stand a far higher than average chance of contracting respiratory illnesses, people who work in the sex industry stand a far higher than average change of contracting STDs. Sad but true, and (I would have thought) fairly obvious.
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The Rock
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Phil McC
Still Scaremongering...?
So is that the end of it now we listened, we took the resonable comments and made a few changes, can we get back to making it, rather than justifing it. I look forward to you all working next week with space suits on.
It always amazes me how some people want to be a social pain in the ass. This attitude is what makes N of the W such a success, they buy it to read stories about someone sadder than themselfs. I think they are also called busy bodys.
I read that smoking on set could lead to you infecting someone else a non smoker for example with cancer.
Phil McC. Tested
It always amazes me how some people want to be a social pain in the ass. This attitude is what makes N of the W such a success, they buy it to read stories about someone sadder than themselfs. I think they are also called busy bodys.
I read that smoking on set could lead to you infecting someone else a non smoker for example with cancer.
Phil McC. Tested
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JoelGertner
Re: It's not just HIV...
The bottom line is that these girls risk alot to be in this business, and every precaution should be taken to proctect them. It seems quite ridiculous and irresponsibe that someone would be allowed to perform in any way that doesn't have a valid PCR DNA test.
Just my 2 cents....
Just my 2 cents....
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(fyrfyter) John
Re: Still Scaremongering...?
Phil,
I respect your opinion and your standing in the industry - but I do feel you're maybe missing the point.
I'm not arguing against bukkake and facials WITHIN THE CONFINES of the industry - I'm all for it... what I am concerned about is the mix of untested amateurs with professionals. It totally and utterly defeats the object of testing and certificates...
In all walks of life there are procedures in place. Those procedures are put in place for a reason. The issue regarding certificates is one such procedure in this industry. It isn't an issue to be made light of. It does concern me that someone of your stature in the industry can be so blase about it. As a respected member of the industry YOU should be proactive about the safety aspect, you should defend the procedures - you should not be making light of them.
But yes - by all means get on with making the stuff - but lets keep the risky stuff within the confines of the industry.
I respect your opinion and your standing in the industry - but I do feel you're maybe missing the point.
I'm not arguing against bukkake and facials WITHIN THE CONFINES of the industry - I'm all for it... what I am concerned about is the mix of untested amateurs with professionals. It totally and utterly defeats the object of testing and certificates...
In all walks of life there are procedures in place. Those procedures are put in place for a reason. The issue regarding certificates is one such procedure in this industry. It isn't an issue to be made light of. It does concern me that someone of your stature in the industry can be so blase about it. As a respected member of the industry YOU should be proactive about the safety aspect, you should defend the procedures - you should not be making light of them.
But yes - by all means get on with making the stuff - but lets keep the risky stuff within the confines of the industry.
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Mayfair & MensWorld
Re: Dililema
Like Golostruda, I haven't read every posting on this thread because of time constraints, but there have been some excellent points made, along with some scaremongering. Fyrfyter clearly knows his ID contagion pathways, but as several other people have said, if Angel is really concerned, she should go and talk to a GUI consultant or specialist.
What we really need in the UK is a central testing centre or accredited body (like Sharon Mitchell's AIM in the US), which can post messages about whatever's doing the rounds.
The US has seen a major chlamydia outbreak (apologies if the spelling's wonky) recently, which AIM took a big hand in helping to contain. Sandie's suggestion that all performers be tested for absolutely everything is superb and should be applied by the major producers. After all, if a girl catches disease X on director A's set, then everyone on-set that day is tarred with the same brush, and the rumours start to spread throughout the business about who passed what on to whom.
The main problem, however, is misinformation and a lack of solid education on these issues. I would urge everyone involved in the hardcore business to read up on the potential illnesses they can fall prey to. Not just the big ones, either. Let's face it, anyone doing A2M these days is risking all manner of nastiness from strep through to gastro-entiritis, and while HIV and Hep B should never be far from your mind, the little bugs can be very nasty indeed.
So far as I am aware, no performer in the US has contracted a major virus through bukkake. And hopefully, no-one will. The problems we face now are due mainly to the hardcore business in the UK still being in its relative infancy.
But if I was performing on camera, I'd want to know that all my co-stars had been rigorously tested for everything in the book.
What we really need in the UK is a central testing centre or accredited body (like Sharon Mitchell's AIM in the US), which can post messages about whatever's doing the rounds.
The US has seen a major chlamydia outbreak (apologies if the spelling's wonky) recently, which AIM took a big hand in helping to contain. Sandie's suggestion that all performers be tested for absolutely everything is superb and should be applied by the major producers. After all, if a girl catches disease X on director A's set, then everyone on-set that day is tarred with the same brush, and the rumours start to spread throughout the business about who passed what on to whom.
The main problem, however, is misinformation and a lack of solid education on these issues. I would urge everyone involved in the hardcore business to read up on the potential illnesses they can fall prey to. Not just the big ones, either. Let's face it, anyone doing A2M these days is risking all manner of nastiness from strep through to gastro-entiritis, and while HIV and Hep B should never be far from your mind, the little bugs can be very nasty indeed.
So far as I am aware, no performer in the US has contracted a major virus through bukkake. And hopefully, no-one will. The problems we face now are due mainly to the hardcore business in the UK still being in its relative infancy.
But if I was performing on camera, I'd want to know that all my co-stars had been rigorously tested for everything in the book.