The magnitude of the risk is a grey area... But that doesn't mean we can shrug it off and be utterly blase about it.
The procedure (certs and testing) is in place FOR A REASON. Everybody in the industry has a responsibility to conform to that procedure not only for their own safety but for the safety of others and the reputation of the industry.
A decision needs to be made with regard to these gangbang and bukkake parties; the mix of untested amatuers with tested professionals DEFEATS the object of testing and certificates...
And I am in TOTAL agreement with David - the industry needs to team up with health experts; provide proper guidance, possibly tighten the Health procedures... Self regulation, personal responsibility etc IS the way to go - but it needs to be done under PROPER DIRECTION.
Dililema
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Mayfair & MensWorld
Re: Wise Words...
Ah, but the problem we face in the UK comes down to the fledgling industry. In the US, as far as I know, AIM is a charitable foundation and as such receives donations. I spoke to Sharon Mitchell last year about setting a UK arm up and she reckoned that she could get it going for around ?40K.
As I said to her, where's that going to come from? The adult movie industry in the UK (despite what some people may think) doesn't generate enough spare cash for that to be a financial reality. But something's got to happen. And sooner, rather than later.
All it takes is for the UK directors to issue a policy statement as a group:
"We will not work with any male or female performer who cannot present a test certificate covering the following..."
If they all band together and do that, then we're halfway there, although the amateur bukkake/gangbang angle still exists.
As I said to her, where's that going to come from? The adult movie industry in the UK (despite what some people may think) doesn't generate enough spare cash for that to be a financial reality. But something's got to happen. And sooner, rather than later.
All it takes is for the UK directors to issue a policy statement as a group:
"We will not work with any male or female performer who cannot present a test certificate covering the following..."
If they all band together and do that, then we're halfway there, although the amateur bukkake/gangbang angle still exists.
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(fyrfyter) John
Amateurs...
I all for freedom of choice... I'm all for people taking calculated risks, a level they are happy with.
My opinion is not such that I want to wrap everybody up in cotton wool - as Phic McC seems to think - my opinion is simply that mixing amatuers with professionals is NOT ACCEPTABLE... professional performers have a procedure laid down that is designed to protect THEM and others in the industry - end of...
If amaturs want to take risk - fine - do so, but do so from a claculated, educated perspective - but NO PROFESSIONAL should cross that line where they cast aside their professional standards and still expect to retain their professional status...
Of course - they can re-attain their professional standard by going through the requisite testing procedure - but compromise it and you lose it for the appropriate period of time.
As for funding the organisation - it is a problem... but at the end of the day that problem is created by the repressed attitudes to sex and pornography in this country. If the industry was deregulated and allowed to flourish - at the same time protection measures instigated - well... a huge chunk of the problem would be resolved there and then.
Your view with regard to policy statements is bang on - but the problem is, all too often policy statements are empty, hollow words - rhetoric for the sake of saying it... there needs to be a real desire and committment towards the safety issue. Unfortunately I find it rather concerning that one particular producer seems to think this whole issue is blown out of all proportion and should be seen as nothing but scaremongering - amazing!
My opinion is not such that I want to wrap everybody up in cotton wool - as Phic McC seems to think - my opinion is simply that mixing amatuers with professionals is NOT ACCEPTABLE... professional performers have a procedure laid down that is designed to protect THEM and others in the industry - end of...
If amaturs want to take risk - fine - do so, but do so from a claculated, educated perspective - but NO PROFESSIONAL should cross that line where they cast aside their professional standards and still expect to retain their professional status...
Of course - they can re-attain their professional standard by going through the requisite testing procedure - but compromise it and you lose it for the appropriate period of time.
As for funding the organisation - it is a problem... but at the end of the day that problem is created by the repressed attitudes to sex and pornography in this country. If the industry was deregulated and allowed to flourish - at the same time protection measures instigated - well... a huge chunk of the problem would be resolved there and then.
Your view with regard to policy statements is bang on - but the problem is, all too often policy statements are empty, hollow words - rhetoric for the sake of saying it... there needs to be a real desire and committment towards the safety issue. Unfortunately I find it rather concerning that one particular producer seems to think this whole issue is blown out of all proportion and should be seen as nothing but scaremongering - amazing!
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Mayfair & MensWorld
Re: Amateurs...
I think that until we have companies the size of Vivid, not much will change in the business as regards performer safety. So far, the porn film biz in this country has been lucky. It only takes one person for it all to go horribly and fatally wrong.
We need the directors to come out and all join hands on the matter. If one director chooses not to, then fair enough. That's his or her business, but the bottom line should be, if girls or guys want to work with the majority of producers, they have to have a certificate clearing them for the full monty.
As for amateur bukkake stuff, then I go with Sandie's suggestion that if you're not tested, you don't get to blow anywhere near the face, and you may well get a condom blow-job, too. And make amateur gangbangs all-condom events.
We need the directors to come out and all join hands on the matter. If one director chooses not to, then fair enough. That's his or her business, but the bottom line should be, if girls or guys want to work with the majority of producers, they have to have a certificate clearing them for the full monty.
As for amateur bukkake stuff, then I go with Sandie's suggestion that if you're not tested, you don't get to blow anywhere near the face, and you may well get a condom blow-job, too. And make amateur gangbangs all-condom events.
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(fyrfyter) John
Re: Amateurs...
I think Sandie's suggestion is "the best of a bad job"... personally I don't think professionals should get involved with amatueur bukkake or gang bangs - but it appears that the demand is such that it isn't going to go away - so yeah... you have to make the events as safe as possible.
With regard to the industry and certs... so far as I am aware ALL PERFORMERS in the industry have to hold a valid cert.
The point Angel was making was that professionals were slipping over to the amateur side of the line and then coming back over to the professional side the very next day....
And that is where the problem is... We're seeing professional productions made featuring professional girls yet amateur guys... And this is where your point regarding producers and policy comes in... nobody participates with a professional unless they themselves meet that professional standard... I really do not see the reason for resistance to that notion.
With regard to the industry and certs... so far as I am aware ALL PERFORMERS in the industry have to hold a valid cert.
The point Angel was making was that professionals were slipping over to the amateur side of the line and then coming back over to the professional side the very next day....
And that is where the problem is... We're seeing professional productions made featuring professional girls yet amateur guys... And this is where your point regarding producers and policy comes in... nobody participates with a professional unless they themselves meet that professional standard... I really do not see the reason for resistance to that notion.
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the Monkey Wrencher
Re:Mayfair Ed
40K is peanuts. How's about your own organisation getting the ball rollling with a hefty donation, given you're returned a healthy net profit year on year for decades?
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(fyrfyter) John
?40K
?40K is indeed a relatively small sum considering... however, I am sure that this is JUST the initial outlay. The real expense will come from maintaining the service.
I think it is far too much to ask one organisation to fund this - but I would like to suggest that perhaps David might consider taking a proactive role in investigating the feasibility of establishing a much needed service; perhaps even setting up a committee of industry big hitters to take it forward.
I think it is far too much to ask one organisation to fund this - but I would like to suggest that perhaps David might consider taking a proactive role in investigating the feasibility of establishing a much needed service; perhaps even setting up a committee of industry big hitters to take it forward.
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Mayfair & MensWorld
Re:Mayfair Ed
Do you really want me to respond to that, Monkey Wrencher? We can barely move in the office for all the hardcore video shoots going on... why, it's just like Private in here. Not. Don't know if you've looked in our *magazines* lately, but there ain't a lot of hardcore in 'em. In fact, there's bugger all.
Back to fyrfyter's point. At the moment, as I understand it, the only test undergone by the majority of UK performers is the HIV one. What Sandie advocates (as do a number of other people I've spoken to) is the full monty of tests for HIV, Hep B and all the other STDs.
Back to fyrfyter's point. At the moment, as I understand it, the only test undergone by the majority of UK performers is the HIV one. What Sandie advocates (as do a number of other people I've spoken to) is the full monty of tests for HIV, Hep B and all the other STDs.
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the Monkey Wrencher
Re: ?40K
You're missing a key point.
In the States STD services are patchy and expensive, hence the need for a specalist service.
In the UK even small provincial towns have drop in clinics which offer Hep A/B vaccination, HIV and STD testing and non-judgmental advice and information. You can even present anonymously if you are concerned about issues surrounding confidentiality. The problem isn't the availability of services, it's the willingness for performers to take risks. That won't be resolved by spending ?40K.
In the States STD services are patchy and expensive, hence the need for a specalist service.
In the UK even small provincial towns have drop in clinics which offer Hep A/B vaccination, HIV and STD testing and non-judgmental advice and information. You can even present anonymously if you are concerned about issues surrounding confidentiality. The problem isn't the availability of services, it's the willingness for performers to take risks. That won't be resolved by spending ?40K.
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(fyrfyter) John
STI screening
I accept that - yes... I know some girls do like to see certs for Full STI screening - but you are correct - the only mandatory cert, it would appear, in this industry is for HIV.
The "industry clinic" - Indigo - does offer full STI screening and certificate in addition to the mandatory HIV cert. It does rather amaze me that we are willing to overlook Hep B - which is considerably more virulent and equally as lethal as HIV... The insistence on solely the HIV cert would seem to be nothing more than a knee jerk reaction to the long running media hysteria over HIV and AIDS.
Clearly - if we were taking safety seriously we would be insisting on the full range of certs.
The "industry clinic" - Indigo - does offer full STI screening and certificate in addition to the mandatory HIV cert. It does rather amaze me that we are willing to overlook Hep B - which is considerably more virulent and equally as lethal as HIV... The insistence on solely the HIV cert would seem to be nothing more than a knee jerk reaction to the long running media hysteria over HIV and AIDS.
Clearly - if we were taking safety seriously we would be insisting on the full range of certs.