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Careful interpreting statistics... two points I want to make:

1) You live in SE London, where the black population is very large, so when you see groups of kids (let's try not to panic and call every group a "gang") you're going to see a high proportion of black kids. Here in NW London, the groups are more mixed, featuring black, white and Asian kids.

2) As often reported, black kids are MANY times more likely to be randomly stopped and searched by the police. Therefore, the police discover more knives and bags of weed on black kids than white kids, and more black kids end up in court for this reason. Plenty of white kids also carry drugs and knives, but are much less likely to be stopped and searched. This distorts the crime figures.

Good point, prehaps when when dealing with youth we need to try and bring back that old idea of respect and at the very least consequences for any action they take. We have got to stop this situation were the status quo cant touch them for anything they do, teachers cannot do anything to rnforce discipline as they are one ones who would then be sacked and the children know it and the same applies for any civic minded person who ever trys to confront them.

When considering the nature of why violent offences appear within the "black" community most of the motivation comes from the idea of "street cred" and its obsession with gang culture.

Gentleman wrote:

> When considering the nature of why violent offences appear
> within the "black" community most of the motivation comes from
> the idea of "street cred" and its obsession with gang culture.

Something being pushed by the commercialisation of "Rap" culture by the white run record labels !wink!

I do believe there maybe some gentleman in the music industry who maybe slightly darker skinned.

Again we have accept the fact that everyone who isnt white isnt a victim of a whitelead conspiricy to keep them "under control" and is capable of making his own moral decisions.

Something being pushed by the commercialisation of "Rap" culture by the white run record labels

Kinetic, obviously you dont listen to rap/ hip hop and if you do you obviously dont understand it but this form of music is essentially telling stories of what is going on rather than the glamourisation of it. This is nothing new as gun culture has been prevalent in black music way before rap became recognised which lends some to your statement.

Arginald made a comment earlier about the ethnic love of living in ghettoised areas. Do you really believe that people love living in ghettos???
Thats proabbly th emost ignorant coment I have heard. Some people are stuck in this environment because of their own lack of education and ambition and dont see any existence outside their own miserable world.

For all of some peoples intelligence on here its sad to see that your mentality is just as bad as those you purport to criticise. In short you are both as bad as each other in thinking if not actions.

I think part of the solution to th eproblems mentioned is reaching out through communcation. How do you get a young angry disaffected youth on the straight and narrow? I've seen it at work through a social worker friend of mine.

If you see the conditions some people live in you would be shocked. Not that this excuses them for their anti social behaviour but when you think some people are living in conditions unfit for a dog its hardly surprising some of them are going to act like animals.

Stop being part of the problem with your thinking and start being part of the solution is what I say

Bring forth the shit storm

youre right that there are those who make the decision and effort to change their lives but as a percentage you are looking at a minority.

We need to provide support to those who behave in a positive manner but come down like a ton of bricks on those who do not to limit the damage they do to the community and provide some motivation for them to make the change.

A carrot without a stick is just a free lunch.

no disrespect to all our social agencies but you often find that the amount who break the chain with their help isnt that much more than those who do not have it.

I totally agee.Thats why we have prisons. Even though some dont agree with certain facilities available to inmates do you know how depressing it is to spend months behind bars? I thought of this the couple of times I spent only 1 - 2 hours I spent in a holding cell. It is fucking horrible.

If I did have to spend time in there though I would definitely read a lot more and take time to do something positive to not go mad not doing anything.

I guess for some real hard bastard case alpha males it takes more than this to even think about going straight.

Even going straight is the thought of giving in to the establishment so for some I guess there is no hope but a life behind bars. What else do you do with defective product?

I think it's well known that Blacks commit more crime 'per person' than Whites, but as WZR stated 'whites commit more crime overall.' This means that both sides can use figures as they want, to back up certain points of view.

As for rap....... it's obvious rap influences the youth of today's society. It may not mean to glamorise murder & violence, but in appealing to the youth these artists & producers must know that there'd be a certain glamorisation going on. The Beatles glamorised drugs in the 60's purely because people idolised everything they said, and everything they did. Haircuts, dress sense, music preference and drugs. We see the same with rap now, but with violence thrown in. I'm not having a go at rap, I love some of it -esp old Snoop & Dre stuff from 92-94- so I can see why youth can interpret these influences as being cool.

I can't see how you can blame the police for stopping more Black youths than White youths though, and I doubt it's true. Like SBB and I have already stated, 'if you live in a predominantly Black area, it will seem that more crime is committed by Blacks.' The same principle comes to effect with police searching. From a Black man's point of view watching police search youths in a Black area, then it's more likely that any gang will be predominantly Black. The police will find more Black gangs to search within a Black area, while in a mainly White area it will seem the police are picking on White youths, and the Whites will think they're being treated unfairly as well! So both communities will mainly be familiar with gangs of their own colour being searched, while assuming the youths of the other community are left alone.

Things aren't always what they seem.