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You're right about that Keith. To add fuel to your fire there was a time in history (maybe recent) when the jews and the palastinians did live happily among one another but if I'm correct the zionist jews messed that up.

[quote]The West bank was until 1967 part of Jordan and has been occupied by Israel ever since then. Now they are building a wall to consolidate what was and is the illegal occupation of part of another country.[/quote]

Quite true Keith, although I guess it's a point of view you see.

Over the last 2000 years, Israel has lost more land to Arabs & Palestinians than the other way around. Modern Syria and Jordan have claimed old Israel/Judah land. All of the West Bank was -Islamic invasions aside- always part of Israel, right past the river of Jordan.

You talk of the West Bank as part of Jordan until 1967 but forget that it was Jordan who captured the West Bank in 1948. I guess it's how much inflence time has in your opinion. Is 1500 years of working that land mean it's yours if it hasn't been for 50 years, or is it the present occupiers who've had the land in the most recent of times? We all agree that American Indians and Aboriginals should be allowed the land they worked before the white man came, so why not the Israelites who had the land before Islam was even a religion?

I'm not agreeing with Israeli violence here, but the Palestinians and the whole Muslim world are fighting over a patch of land that was never really theirs until modern times (and it was only their when they took it through bloodshed). They are the original occupiers. The terrorism of today all stems from this conflict, over this piece of land. The only land Jews can call home on the whole planet.

Here are 2 maps to compare:


and


Israel have a lot to answer for, but if you want to get to the root of the worlds troubles today, it's from ancient Greek settlers who befriended some Islamic invaders and adopted their religion, who now think they hold rights to land they've either taken through war, or squatted in when the owners were fighting off others.

Of course we can go into blaming the British, who divided up the land, but it was the Muslim Ottoman Empire in the 1st WW that cause British occupation to come about in the first place. It's a mess really, and I really doubt Iran, Jordan, Egypt, Syria, Afghanistan etc ect would care about the Palestinian cause if those ancient people hadn't adopted Islam, and instead stuck to the polytheistic beliefs? The Islamic world is using the Palestinians for their own cause. I mean did Iran complain when China invaded Tibet, or Germany invaded France?

It's all bollocks from both sides, but I refuse to accept that Israel are an occupying force.

"Sorry, was I waffling again?"

Not waffling this time, Sam. You were a paragon of clarity. An interesting, erudite, and informative read. Just one thing, though. You say you don?t condone Israel?s heavy-handed tactics ? well I do! Yes, I love to see efficient rational people lacing into irrational, wild-eyed, nutters of the type who chant slogans and fire AK47?s in the street. They must be suppressed ? lest they drag us all down to their level. Those Israelis don?t stand for any crap or time wasting bullshit. If anyone gets lairy with them, they twat them! Job sorted. I like their style. Life?s to short for bollocks.


Officer Dibble

By the way, there exists no evidence that the Jews were ever made slaves by the Babylonians or Egyptians.

No, just that no evidence for any of those events exists.

The only references we have are stories in the Torah (Pentateuch, or first five books of the Old Testament).

I never said the Jews were made slaves. They weren't even Jews in those times. They were just Israelites, pagan maybe?

Considering Egypt and Babylonia were powerful and wealthy cultures, and considering both left scriptures & hieroglyphics, telling us of great wars and slavery, and considering that both empires held Israeli/Judaic land at certain times in the past, then it's safe to assume the Israelites were slaves, or driven out at least.

Given that Judaism is the first recognised organised monotheistic religion, and that monotheism was born in Egypt a couple of centuries earlier (during the reign of "heretic" pharoah Akhenaten, whose religious beliefs were proscribed, and efforts made to airbrush him from history), there must have been some cross-pollination.