David Sullivan and Karren Brady Arrested

[randyandy]

Of course some of the "gits" could be here to have a better look at what goes on within the industry with a view to changing opinion for no other reason than the financial benefits it could bring.

With regards to the "wimmin" blah blahs take it you've not read Paying the Price.

If you had you would have seen very clearly the recognition that MANY women are in the sex industry for their own personal gains and because THEY want to be in it.

Officer Dibble wrote:

> But that was the old 'conservative' Conservatives. Today's 'Nu
> Tories' are a different kettle of fish. The emphasis now is as
> much on social liberalism as economic liberalism. Almost all
> those at the top Tory table are now social liberals. Indeed
> some are openly gay and they frequently put up both Asian and
> women MP's as their spokespersons on 'Question Time'.
>


The trouble is all the changes are being done to win votes it's the only thing the nu Tories (like most Politicians) are interested in.

Why is it that Green Dave (friend of the environment and the 'people') Cameron rides his bike, (illegally in some cases), spouts his green bollocks while closely followed by his car and his brief cases?

Why does he also not allow his helicopter to photographed during his trips up and down the country?

Why doesn't he say what he would do on issues like Post Office closures?

Who is it that claims almost ?20,000 for his mortgage?

I actually blame some elements of new Labour for now not trusting any new version of any political party especially when the old breed (closed mining communities etc without giving a shit for the community) are now the nodding dogs.

But IF the new Tories are so wonderful could you explain:

Why has crime gone up and some services been reduced where I live since the Conservatives took over my council ?

Are the new Tories only interested in spouting bollocks to get in ???

Green Dave visited us and some where sadly foolish enough to listen to his crap and accept the bribe from our Tory candidates at the time that a local action group would get funding IF elected.

Does Green Dave know his councillors won't even answer emails on issues?

Green Dave has forgotten about us just months after his new Tories got in!

If he can neglect us in just a few months how long will it take for him to ruin the entire Nation??

[Mysteryman]

Dibble, during the last 43 years I've had a great deal to do with politicians of all shades in the UK and overseas. I've worked for them, with them and even dabbled myself with the SDP in its formative period.

Apart from the fact that you want to stir controversy with your postings, you overlook the basic facts:

1. Conservatism in the UK cannot exist without the backing of what is left of the old "establishment". It is from there that it gains its beliefs and its certitude that it, and it alone, is the arbiter of what is right and decent and how society should be structured.

2. The Tories depend on funding from some of the most right wing people in the UK, some of whom would close this website and jail all pornographers as perverts tomorrow if they could (whilst carrying on their own sexual, financial and economic practices).

3. All politicians, of any persuasion, are in the hands of bankers and, increasingly, the global mega companies - not to mention a few super rich people who play with stock and commodity prices. All parties who wish to govern have to dance to those masters first - what they offer the electorate is generally watered down popularism to gain power without resorting to non-democratic methods.

4. An age old truth, proved over and over again, is that the most powerful and long lasting governments or dynasties are those that control people through religion and sex. Religions promise people something better after this life....if. Rulers have long cottoned on to this and used religion to reinforce their power in various ways to force people to pay taxes, lay down their lives, live under restrictive moral and social constraints or just work for minimal wages. Look how many Prime Ministers and Presidents "get religion" when running for office.

Rulers then extend their control over the most powerful force in human kind - the need to procreate. Over the centuries rulers of all shades have decided exactly how much/little sex can be enjoyed, in which context and at what levels of relationships. They have used fear and religion to enforce this control.

For the most part, those making the rules over the centuries (Kings, Popes, Bishops, Members of various Cabinets to name a few) rarely kept the rules themselves and there is scant evidence to prove this has changed. Those that enforce the rules most stringently are often the worst offenders.

In the last two decades the Tories rammed family values down British throats, brought in restrictive legislation on porn and were involved in supporting Whitehouse and other moralists whilst indulging in long running and, eventually, high profile shag fests with whoever, whenever.

Labour, the Lib Dems and others have similar histories. What you need to realise is that the primary political credo reads:

I am a politician, I believe I can be seen to do good but my need is for power and wealth. I will offer myself and appeal to people's fears by offering a solution to their anxieties and worst nightmares. I will thus be in a position to impose my will and that of those who are like minded. I will ensure that, whilst offering small advances to the populous as a whole, I will line my own pockets, indulge my own appetites, even in contradiction to my stated beliefs and, if found out, will ensure that I will cling to power until forced out (preferably with a contract from the media in my pocket).

If I do succeed and rise to the top I will change my policies as required to ensure the best outcome for me and my cronies - all in the name of the good of the country.

Tories, Labour, Lib Dems, Republicans, Democrats, Social Democrats, Greens - I've been close to them all yet can count on less than the 20 digits attached to my limbs the politicians I would trust or can honestly say are not in the game for themselves first, second and last.

Dibble, do you seriously believe that a change of government to one led by an old Etonian with not a clue about how 97% of the UK population were brought up and live will, amongst other things:

solve the credit crisis
bring a change for the better in law and order
bring change in society so everyon has real opportunity?

The reality is that (as 13 years of Tory rule in the 1950/1960s and 18 years under Thatcher and Major showed) the arse licking of the USA, bankers, big business and the Tory Grandees would continue.

The British public would be told that "tough times are ahead - but we are working for a better tomorrow: no pain, no gain".

Sitting Tory MPs will take directorships for massive sums for doing nothing whilst taxation will increase for all as, though taxation under Labour has been slammed "a look at the books" will show a far worse condition than Cameron and Osborne realised.

Meanwhile the truth and scandals of Labour's time in office will come out.

Perhaps Dibble you should get real and stop branding those who don't believe the clap trap you peddle as lefties and do us the favour of correctly calling us realists.

[stripeysydney]

Well, that told you Dibbsie ol' son...

[Officer Dibble]

I haven?t overlooked anything. I?m aware of everything you have alluded to ? even though I might give a slightly different interpretation (or allow differing weight) to some the points you have raised.

Yes, at the end of the day they, and we, are all in it for ourselves. It?s the rampant hypocrisy, the delusions of equality and socialism that get my goat. The self imbued moral superiority of the middleclass socialist (and yes, the Conservatives of yore). But at least the Tories are a bit more honest about human nature and the aspirations of ordinary people.

If you believe in sexual freedom then I would have thought you would be a natural supporter of ?small government? (the Tories) as opposed to the Big Government of NuLabour (think Harriett ?No Sex? Harman and Fiona McTaggart). Will things be better under the Tories? All any non-psychic can say is ?they might be?. The important thing is that this present government, fuelled by the delusion of socialism and it?s self imbued moral superiority, is stopped in it?s tracks.

Frankly I don?t give a dam what fat cats, bankers and Old Etonians are up to ? so long as they don?t mess with me, my life, and my aspirations.

Far from being a realist, you sound like a nihilist. There IS something you can do. Use your vote. Just vote for anyone apart from NuLabour ? or you might come to your senses in 10 -15 years and realize you are living in a politically correct Orwellian nightmare.



Officer Dibble

[dynatech]

He's right, you know.
All depends what people consider the lesser evil, that's if they can think at all.
Our health, wealth and futures are controlled by people with very little in the way of true principles

[Mysteryman]

Officer Dibble wrote:

> Yes, at the end of the day they, and we, are all in it for
> ourselves. It?s the rampant hypocrisy, the delusions of
> equality and socialism that get my goat. The self imbued moral
> superiority of the middleclass socialist (and yes, the
> Conservatives of yore). But at least the Tories are a bit more
> honest about human nature and the aspirations of ordinary
> people.

I'd go along with you as far as the last sentence above but if you think the real power in the Tory party knows, or cares about, "the aspirations of ordinary people" you are sadly deluded.

>
> If you believe in sexual freedom then I would have thought you
> would be a natural supporter of ?small government? (the Tories)
> as opposed to the Big Government of NuLabour (think Harriett
> ?No Sex? Harman and Fiona McTaggart). Will things be better
> under the Tories? All any non-psychic can say is ?they might
> be?. The important thing is that this present government,
> fuelled by the delusion of socialism and it?s self imbued moral
> superiority, is stopped in it?s tracks.

The current UK government is a betrayal of all Blair (and John Smith before him) said they stood for prior to 1997. They are now dead in the water and will decay under the hand of Brown's Prebyterianism - the worst thing that Labour has imposed on the UK since Sir Stafford Cripps.

Sexual freedom has nothing, and should not have anything, to do with big or small government - and anyway the delusion of "small" government is just the Tories parroting the line of the Bush family and Reagan before them - in other words give carte blanche to companies and the super rich to make more money and pay less tax, whilst reducing workers' rights, employment opportunities, pay and working conditions.

> Frankly I don?t give a dam what fat cats, bankers and Old
> Etonians are up to ? so long as they don?t mess with me, my
> life, and my aspirations.

Well you should because they do, they will and, whilst you can do little about it on your own, until people wake up and give a damn they'll get away with blue murder.

> Far from being a realist, you sound like a nihilist. There IS
> something you can do. Use your vote. Just vote for anyone apart
> from NuLabour ? or you might come to your senses in 10 -15
> years and realize you are living in a politically correct
> Orwellian nightmare.

I'm not a nihilist. I believe in strong, elected, popular government working for the benefit of all. There will always be haves and have nots based on intellect, strength, willingness to work, and a host of other factors but government should offer equal chances to as many as possible to advance intellectually, monetarily and in personal freedom whilst respecting the rights of others.

Pie in the sky? Perhaps - but the Tories don't offer any real advance on anyone else and, as for Orwellianism, it was they, not Labour, who introduced restrictions on what we can and cannot watch and who introduced the UK to the idea of being overlooked by cameras everywhere. What Labour has done is to increase the use of control over sexual matters and con the public into thinking cameras make them safe.
The next Tory government will only increase the amount of control, the number of cameras and bring in tighter sanctions and that will be when Orwellianism will truly have arrived.

[Officer Dibble]

"if you think the real power in the Tory party knows, or cares about, "the aspirations of ordinary people" you are sadly deluded."

Mysteryman, I must hold my hand up and admit to being little more than a humble outside observer. I'm not privy to the machinations of those who hold 'real power' in the Tory Party, nor do I know who these 'men in suits' are. But since you seem to have an insight into whom they are and what their evil plan is, all I can say is - do tell.

I don't know about this new lot and their understanding of the aspirations of ordinary people - but I fear you may be right in that many of the Tory front benchers are old Etonians and the like. Now, that's not a problem in itself, but it does put them in a different ballpark to the people whose votes they are counting on. They don't understand how ordinary Joes think and they don't fully understand what we want and, conversely, what we don't want.

Take all this 'green' cobblers. I'll wager there's not a single working class person in the whole of the UK who gives a flying fuck about their CO'2 emissions. Yet Dave is under the illusion that it is a cool and trendy vote winner. Well, maybe it is in the Westminster village and in trendy Islington amongst all those privileged metrosexual luvvies. But folk in Barnsley and Doncaster would poke you in the eye if you suggested they had an ?unsustainably large carbon footprint?. What real folk want are better cars, bigger cars, bigger houses, and more flights to Tenerife. They don't want to be told to get on their bikes, get on the bus or take a holiday at Butlins - they had enough of all that when they were skint under Wilson, Heath and Callaghan. They don't want to go back there.

These working people are the people Cameron needs to get back onboard if he is going to make it to Number Ten, and although green issues are important, they don't mean jack to the plumber and plaster in Leeds.

But Mrs. Thatcher understood the desires and aspirations of working people all to well - to own their own homes, to own shares in the companies that employed them, to maybe start their own business and get a new car. But most of all she understood that they desired the self-respect and self-confidence that being their own men and being king of their own castle conferred on them. Mrs. T was extremely concerned with the aspirations of ordinary people - for it was they (Essex men if you will) who kept her in power.


"The current UK government is a betrayal of all Blair (and John Smith before him) said they stood for prior to 1997. They are now dead in the water and will decay under the hand of Brown's Prebyterianism - the worst thing that Labour has imposed on the UK since Sir Stafford Cripps."

Can't disagree with that, Mysterman. Sounds about right, old son.


"Sexual freedom has nothing, and should not have anything, to do with big or small government"

Well, maybe it should, maybe it shouldn't. But the fact is that it does - as we saw with the old Tories and now with these NuLabour sorts. Apart from a few nutcases I don't think there is any real conviction or interest amongst MP's either way. But, apart form the nutters, they're all cynical self-serving gits who will do and vote for whatever is politically expedient. They just go with the flow. No MP with serious career plans could ever countenance further liberalizing the porn laws simply because of the equally cynical reaction of the tabloid press "MP PROPOSES MAKING HARDCORE FILTH AVAILABLE IN KIDDIES SWEET SHOPS!!? As though they gave a fuck. But it seems that everyone has to go along with the charade. However, I was genuinely surprised and heartened to hear that Tory Spokeswoman Teresa May had given Harriet 'Horrid Person' Harman's loony left anti-sex idea's short shrift. A sign of the times, and a sign of a new Conservative Party. A Tory MP couldn't possibly have spoken up on behalf of prostitutes and punters in Mrs. T's day.

On the subject of pay, working conditions, etc. Hey, it's not only the super rich who want carte blanche to earn loads of money and pay less tax - us ordinary Joes from council estates fancy a bit of that too, you know. You shouldn't labor under the illusion that we're all respectable cap doffers, content with our humble lot. Nah, these days we're as go for it as Alan Sugar and Richard Branson. And on the subject of opportunities - Hey, we don't want any patronizing charity or affirmative action. We've got our self-respect as well, you know. We'll go out and make our own opportunities, thanks - we don't expect a chap to bring them round to our front door for us. We can handle it; we?re not all mongs. Just trust us.


On the subject of Old Etonians, bankers, and their Machiavellian machinations. I must admit I'm blissfully unaware. I have no sense that they are impeding me in my day-to-day life - or further in my dreams and desires. Am I missing something? Maybe you could enlighten me as to how their malevolence manifests itself ? so I?ll know what to look out for, like?


?I'm not a nihilist. I believe in strong, elected, popular government working for the benefit of all. There will always be haves and have nots based on intellect, strength, willingness to work, and a host of other factors but government should offer equal chances to as many as possible to advance intellectually, monetarily and in personal freedom whilst respecting the rights of others.?

And who could disagree with that?


?What Labour has done is to increase the use of control over sexual matters and con the public into thinking cameras make them safe. The next Tory government will only increase the amount of control, the number of cameras and bring in tighter sanctions and that will be when Orwellianism will truly have arrived.?

Hmmm. You know, I think we need to have a more in depth discussion on personal liberty and ?the individual? in relation to the various political ideologies. It could be that we need to explore how each ideology views the individual and whether it has the interests of the individual at it?s heart ? or maybe whether it views the individual as an irrelevant anachronism, to be suppressed and subsumed by a beneficent state. But not here and not now. Time for bed.




Officer Dibble

[Mysteryman]

I have to be out all day today - I'll come back to you on Wednesday

Mysteryman

[Johnny B]

Looks like hes in another spot of bother
[IMG]http://img145.imagevenue.com/loc663/th_97376_sullivan3708tled-Scanned-01_122_663lo.jpg[/IMG]

[JonnyHungwell]

Business and corruption go hand-in-hand.