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to be honest i agree with mike. what the hell are these kids parents doing while all this crap is going on!!! it seems to be a rare comodity to find a child/ teen that has parents that give a crap what they are up to. as far as this knife culture getting out of hand you have to fear that it is already too late....

dimi wrote:

> to be honest i agree with mike. what the hell are these kids
> parents doing while all this crap is going on!!! it seems to be
> a rare comodity to find a child/ teen that has parents that
> give a crap what they are up to. as far as this knife culture
> getting out of hand you have to fear that it is already too
> late....


I couldn't agree more about parental responsibility and could tell tails you wouldn't believe. Having said that it MUST be all and not just the few.


With regards to fearing it is already too late I hope not.

This is what the Council in Thornton Heath (Shakilus the latest victim) SHOULD have implemented IN FULL:

http://www.croydon.gov.uk/content/depar ... trat08.pdf

If you can?t read in full here is just one of the aims:

To reduce violent crime in Croydon by targeting all
violence against the person including robbery and
the use of weapons.

They (the Council and Partners) have been wanting to do something about it since 2005 at the earliest.

The question is why haven?t they?

It is still on the books so far from being to late they should get the arse into gear now and do what they claim they will do.

terrible crime and loss of life but the thing with these stories is you only ever get one side of the story,the victim is always the "lovely lad,"harmless" ,"promising career,"had no enemies".and although no one can ever condone any crime like this i always feel that there alot more to the story then we are being told,usually for the victims familys sake,
not this teen murder in particular but many others ive looked at the photos and read some statements and you can just tell that the victims were anythign but innocent passers by,nowadays people carry weapons around,guns,knives,bats etc and when fighs break out they use them but they perhaops dont set out with the intent to just single someone out and kill them .all young people nowadays have this gang mentality or trying to act hard etc,they walk around with a swagger and stare at any one walking past,theyll be out drinking on the streets causing trouble or ina club somewhere causing trouble,in this particular case it sounds like a fight broke out on a pretty large scale and ben was involved,we dont know how much involved as weve only heard from a few of his friends whove all give different scenarios,
i heard one which said he had nothing to do with it but then stepped in to sort it out,
one that said as mentioned earlier it ws he and the accused who actually atarted the large scale fight over having his shoes stepped on .
in my opinion in the cases you can usually have a good guess at whats happned,the lad has stepped onhis shoes or spilt a drink on him hes turned around and called him something,so ben has replied back in the same manor theres been some pushing and someone has thrown the first punch and a fight has followed .we dont really know who th aggressor was or who threw first punch and in the end its been a tragedy and one lad has lost his life and another 3 or 4 will lose most there life to prison,i really think these lads carrying knives dnt think that they will actually kill anyone rather just hurt them and scare them and theyll need to have a hand full of stitches etc,they at the time probably dont think there going to sever an artery or puncture a lung,i really think if they were setting out to kill they would just carry guns as they dont get checked going in places or walking the streets,there easy to get hold off and i think in thsiday and age there more glorified,your a proper gangsta if you have one so to speak.

i think by not telling the whole story in these cases alot of young people inc myself think that you will just be stabbed walking down the street minding your own business,which may happen but i think if they tell us the whole truth ,"look if your underage and your in a bar and you get drunk and you get into a drunken brawl these are the situations where your gonna end up getting hurt",you dont really get this kind of thing happening in the 23 + age bracket because people are more sensible at that age.we'll avoid certain places,we wnt get to drunk to walk,we'll turn the other cheek to certain things.

i myself am 23 and live just outside liverpool and we get alot of gangs around here to and there have been a few incidents over the years,but i think life for young people now is pretty bleak,my parents bought our house for 16 grand about 20 years ago it now worth more than 10 fold that,wages have not gone up ten fold,i know myself now i dnt think id really ever be able to afford a house in a nice area,cost of petrol is sky rocketing,food prices at the supermarket have spiralled,might sound sill but i can remeber being 13 or 14 and paying about 35p for a can of coke,its about double that now,were already one of the hardest working counties in europe with most people working 40-50 hours a week,ive got friends who were clever and went to uni and done really weel but cnt find professional jobs and now stack shelves or work in blockbuster video on minimum wages lumbred with 10-20 grand student loans to pay off.

england is in a very bad way,and i really think its been left to rot to long and its hard to see a way out of the hole were in now,its the brittish disease and its getting worse every single year and its not going to stop for a good while yet.

sorry didnt mean for this to go on so long,ha

i agree with alot of your statements davos even though it took me half a day to read lol! in all seriousness some of these politicians and authorites have got to muster up a bit of bottle in order to tackle this bullshit. it just baffles and sickens me that youngsters carry knifes. this country has to be one of the softest touches in the world!!! and its sad that its got to this...

yeah soryy went on a bit of a rant there,
,the upper classes have become to p.c and are scred to actually punish the people that are comitting the crimes so they just get away with it,the government pump to much money into the war machine which 80% of the country dnt give a shit about any more and i think would gladly withdraw the troops if we had oursay and start using the billions of pounds on opening more prisons and hospitals and improving the crime hot spot areas,
i also beleive there needs to be more modern punishments for youg people and repeat offenders alike,i really think chain gangs area great idea,that way the criminals are forcd to work and give back to the people theyve wronged,have them build play areas,plant trees,paint liabrarys etc...and im sure when they get out they will have at least a small sens of accomplishment and perhaps the few of them who may see some children enjoying the parks and gardens theyve help build could make them change there ways.at the minute jail is a free ride where they can learn to commit crimes better or new crimes or even just carry on dealing drugs inside making more money.i also think fines need to be more hefty,you get some people being find ?180 for carrying a knife ,should be at least a few grand and if they dnt have it cash they should have the things that matter to them confiscated to that fee,tvs,cars,wii/playstations,phones..... hit them where it hurts so to speak....thats what i think anyway

Re: my post above, the reasons why there is this level of violence amongst the young is going to take more than legislation to sort, we have to deal not just with the acts themselves, or the carrying of weapons, but a deep deep problem rooted within society. It is the 'papering over the cracks' that has helped the problem grow.
You know that nightmare vision of the future depicted in all those 20th century books such as 1984 & A Clockwork Orange? We're there now.

couldnt agree more with you 'dynatech' i was talking about it with my mates the other day and although slightly more far fetched then clockwork orange i was implying we werent that far off from a film called 'judge dredd',im sure some of you must have seen it ,got sly stallone in.
obviously its set alot further into the future but to me the idea of it is what im expecting to grow old in,as a society weve stopped building out and are now building up ,all the poor getting put into estate blocks which will home 100 familys covering the floor space of perhaps 6 normal family houses.the streets are becoming a scary place to be ,not just for potential muggings etc but it seems if your not part of the chav culture then your a potential target to them,the trackies and hoodys are a uniform of intimidation and if yournot in one your game to them.i can see the police and government losing control of the matter and young people becoming alienated which of course will be passedon to there osn and daughters and theyll have to step in with some form ofzero tollerance rule,if theres no place for them in the streets and no room for them in the jails then where do they go,i can just see it in my perhaps slightly over imaginative head the idea of these certain dead cities like in escape from l.a and alcatraz with kurt russel in.

im 23 and live in a rough-ish area and theres always scummy families everywhere and you can see them through the generations getting worse,youve got the local dealers who are the hardmen at the pub,they have kids my age who end up worse cus they think there untouchable now most have them have got kids of 5 or 6 who you already see on the streets after dark throwing stones and spitting at people ,when they should be in bed asleep.
tome it is a disease,not one that is spread around but one thats passedon through the generations.
you get one dickhead grandad whose had 4 knobhead sons whove now had 2 gobshite kids them selves and thats not mentioning the girls ,they all seem to live within a few houses of each other and to be fair to them in this day they are untouchable because good people live in fear of them and the police wnt do anything until theyve killed someone which always happen be it through dodgy drugs leading to people o'd-ing,driving when drunk,fighting in pubs or getting heavy with people who dont cough up on time.
there always involved with drugs cus they dont a hard days work as they see it below them,the druggies end up skint to fee the addiction and sart knicking phones and car radios ,old people etc and then you get the poole like myself and friends who will have to cross to the otherside of the road so we dont get abuse of a gang of little shitters who you cnt touch cus there uncle knobhead will be after youor theyll smash your house and car windows.you cnt really go to the police because in ther eyes the worst thing you can do is grass so your only gna get it worse because they know as well as us the police arent gonna do anything and theyll get away with it.

again sorry for the big rant but its pretty depressing thinkinghow shit things our at the minute and knowing its only gna get a damn site worse.
theres certain peoplein our community,we all have them where we live and we all hate them,there never going to contribute anything positive to the world ,they should be taken from there homes and shot ,i really cnt see a better way of dealing with them.
on the whole our country is full of good people but these rogue familys and gangs are growing 2 or 3 fold evey 20 years or so and need to be dealt with now.
think of your life and then think of theres,most good people work for a living and still just scrape by and have put up withthese people on a adaily basis while there at home with there fancy cars and lcd tv's earning thousandsa week from dealing drugs without having to get of the couch,people re to scred to say boo to them,there living the dream at the cost of everyone else,
i wonderhow many murders in london each year are over drugs,be it again overdoses,gangland killings for people dealing outside there own turf,people not being able to pay up ,dirty needles and aids,thats not to mention all the muggings,and robberies that go to pay for the crackheads buying the stuff.
i really think that is what the problem is i think if we could get rid of the drugs ,we get rid fo the greed that surrounds it to as well as the thousands of addicts.
also the celebrity lifestyle of today is a big factor with these kids growing up on council streets watching tv and seeing all these things that theyll never have,footballers on hundreads of thousands a week and these american 'sweet 16' programs,theyve ha d a shit upbringing,there probably not to bright,the best they can hope for is a factory job or working in fast food and you cnt blame them for wanting more and drugs and crime is the only way there going to get it

you paint a very depressing picture davos, but sadly its true. if your not with them your against them sort of mindset.

This country is finished - too many scummy people living on benefits, who have bred another generation of scummy children. Short of gassing about 2 million at the bottom of the heap, there is no solution.

well they say the things that seperate humans from animals is a conscience and obv the fact we are more intelligent,but to be fair most of these are complete fuckwits with no conscience to speak of,ifthere gna act like animlas weshould treat them like animals,if you kill the root of the tree it dies but if you cut ofthe branches they will grow back,we need torid the world of this scum before they have the chance to grow older and produce all there branches who in turn spread seeds to grow another family of the inbread bastards a few blocks around the corner