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When you say that it is mainly white people who talk about racism it is because it is always white people who are the ones that are called racist. When this charge is thrown at white folks every day, and when white folks have to watch their step with everything they do, then it is an issue for white folks. I personally never thought of that until you just mentioned it, I've never really seen myself as a 'white person' (although that is what I technically am), I have always seen myself as just a person and have regarded everyone as the same as me - irrespective of anything to do with their visual look. As you raised the issue, I have pondered it and I think it is for that reason. Someone would get less flack and have their life less ruined if they were convicted of being a child molester than if they were ever called a racist, and considering the person making the charge doesn't have to back it up they just have to call you it and then your life is f**ked forever, people are afraid. It is for that reason that those people who are potentially on the receiving end have it as an issue in their minds and talk about it.

People also get annoyed at the double-standards of it all. Muslim extremists outside the Danish Embassy in London with their 'death to the west', 'London your 9/11 is coming' and 'behead anyone who insults Islam' placards were given the full protection of the attendant Police and the Police instead threatened to arrest any passers-by who complained, and charge them under 'hate speech' laws for complaining (?). You have to respect the right of these people to be so offensive, and when you get offended by their vile behaviour complaining about it is not condusive to 'community coheshion'! A group like that outfit who were outside the mosque in Harrow (who are mostly white) with their 'stop the Islamification of Britain' and 'patriotism is not racism' banners last week were all called 'islamiphobes' and 'fascists' by the media. London Tonight, the London evening news on ITV1, called it 'an islamiphobic demonstation'. How they, as a supposedly impartial broadcaster, can make a subjective charge like that, I do not know.

So you can see from all I've said here that people who are white talk about 'racism' quite a lot - mainly because of the potential of being branded unfairly as one, not being able to defend yourself, and having your reputation ruined if you are called it - and also because of the unfairness and because this issue is not a level-playingfield.

Max wrote:

When you say that it is mainly white people who talk about racism it is because it is always white people who are the ones that are called racist.



Yes and its the people of colour that are offended, especially when they feel oppressed because of their skin colour and lets face it....Racists hate people of colour for just that reason.

You might want to try being black for a day. Al Jolson up and go around town and understand what it s like ot be a person of colour or perhaps go to a place like Japan with your white skin as I hear from a friend out there he knows what it feels like to be a different colour.

Then come back and tell us about your experiences Max and even then, with one days experience under your belt youmight want to know what it is like being a person of colour for a life time.

I guess white people have it bad too but throw in the fact you dont fit in because of your colour and there are examples everywhere and you will know why the Black Policemen have their own source of refuge with their own association...Why every sub division has their own association...hey , even the BNP feel like foreigners in their own country.

Try being black and hangingout with that lot and you would have scratched the surface and yes...I have experienced racism too and the thing I just cant get out of my head and never will understand that ignorant people just dont like you because you are not one of them.

Heres the deal though...its never gonna stop through a debate on the BGAFD so in the words of Rodney King:

"Can we all just get along?"

The great thing about a forum is none of us know what each other looks like.

Just as well. lets keep it like that eh and get back to talking about the girlies and keep it light.

The only thing they did wrong was they were f...ckin lame as it gets

The timing issue is relevant

white uni students seem to have this history of taking aim at minorities
Too much education obviously has its effects?

dudley moore/peter cook.... bo dudley

Plus racism isnt all black and white...How about Busta Rhymes album being banned in Arab countries because of the song "Arab Money"

Yeah...exactly.

No one gave a shit.

Seems racism isnt racism unless its black and white it seems.

The most bizarre thing I heard from a police officer was an investigation involving anti semitic comments from one jewish person to another.

Yep thats crazy..But we are in a crazy world.

one eyed jack wrote:


> The most bizarre thing I heard from a police officer was an
> investigation involving anti semitic comments from one jewish
> person to another.
>
> Yep thats crazy..But we are in a crazy world.

My guess would be that that dispute was about the issue of zionism. Some jews want to extend the meaning of the term antisemitism to also cover anti-zionism, and there are anti-zionist jews...

please can you do me "learn ems"..whats zionism?... indebted to you x

Racist and xenophobic humour (which tends to be of similar nature) is sometimes a rather thin veil over racist and xenophobic feelings underneath the surface. Yes, there is usually the claim "it's only a joke, honest!", but when you are at the receiving end it does not quite feel that way.

Now, not being black I'm not normally at the receiving end of that form of racist humour, but being German living in the UK I have seen its xenophobic variations. For example, looking at Jeremy Clarkson's usual Mickey-take on Johnny Foreigner I could not help but get the impression that genuine ill feelings are dressed up as humourous.

What makes the Jackson-case particularly bad is that on top of all the issues one can throw at a black&white minstrel show is the combination of (i) the timing, i.e. his recent death, and (ii) Michael Jackson's pigmental transformation over the years. Some say the latter was due to medical intervention and thus reflected on Michael's disturbed identity, others that it was a debilitating skin condition. Either way, this was in extremely bad taste, and the timing made it worse.

I agree with your last comment, beutelwolf. Very bad taste and timing. I also don't like how the show's host excuses the act by making out they didn't see it as a problem because they're Australian. I don't buy that at all.

I'd have to disagree with you on Clarkson's motives, though. I'm not a fan of his, quite the contrary. I think he's a bit of a twat. I do think, though, that sometimes we accuse people of a bigger crime on the basis of a smaller misdemeanour. When I've been in the US I've routinely been asked why my teeth aren't bad like other Brits' and then been subject to jokes around the subject. I found them tiresome and a little annoying after a while but I never got the impression their humour was a veil for xenophobia. Maybe I'm naive but I took it as banter and teased them back. There's no definite line between teasing and abuse, though because it varies from person to person. It's a tough one.

One thing's for sure, it could be argued that Clarkson has a responsibility to ponder whether his light-hearted 'banter' reinforces national stereotypes regarding people from other nations. Coming from a TV personality isn't as bad as a President taking the piss out of some part of another nation's culture though: .

Sarah Kelly wrote:

> please can you do me "learn ems"..whats zionism?... indebted to
> you x

I'm not an expert, but to sum it up:

Zionism is the movement to bring the Jews back to the Israeli homeland. The contentious side to this is that it is "their" land, as it is the promised land, promised to them by God - and therefore the Jews have the right to take it from whoever happens to occupy it at the moment, including the Palestinians. That movement was the origin of the Jewish resettlement of Israel/Palestine in the 20th century.

Sam Slater wrote:

> I'd have to disagree with you on Clarkson's motives, though.

I was not talking about his motives. I do think he intends it as banter.
What I am saying is that his kind of banter is in such a peculiar way repetitive (especially when he talks about the French) that it reveals his actual feelings, and not in a good way.

And I would call myself even a (albeit mild) fan of Clarkson. He is a bit of an arrogant twit, I grant you that, but arrogance is a sin I easily forgive as I am fairly arrogant myself.

> Coming from a TV personality isn't as bad as a
> President taking the piss out of some part of another nation's
> culture though:
> .

Well, the ones who should have been really pissed off by that remark are the Finns...

Of course, many stereotypes are based on facts to some extent, otherwise they wouldn't survive as popular stereotypes.

Regarding British food, it's the lower end of the culinary spectrum in the UK which is pretty appalling compared to the corresponding lower end in other European countries. That certainly was my experience when I arrived from Germany: on the continent I was quite happily getting myself chicken & chips at any old snack bar; in Edinburgh I found routinely (until I gave up on those outlets) the chicken undercooked, the skin wasn't crispy, the chips were completely soaked in some nondescript oil that was unfit for human consumption, the hygiene looked suspect, etc. BTW Recently, Michel Roux Jr said in an interview that he didn't like the program Come Dine With Me, except for the French version of that program - and he came pretty close to claiming that dinner party standards in France are higher than in Britain...

Regarding British teeth, that is also based on some facts: the failure to integrate dentistry into the NHS properly forces many people to pay privately and thus many choose to give the dentist a miss...