GP.s running hospital budgets

[Sam Slater]

[quote]On this thread alone, I have already stated that I voted Labour in 2001 and that Blair later took the country into what I regarded as an illegal war in Iraq. I felt that I had made a mistake in voting for them as a result and did not vote Labour in the next election.[/quote]

You admitted to making a mistake in 2001 but you never stated you refused to vote for them at the next election. If you had my opinion may have differed.

For what it's worth, I don't think you're responsible for the war in Iraq by voting Labour in 2001. That's silly talk and reminds me of religious views, where you're born a sinner and commanded to be well. It's unhealthy.....just like your obsession with Nick Clegg.

[Sam Slater]

Replied to wrong post.

[David Johnson]

"For what it's worth, I don't think you're responsible for the war in Iraq by voting Labour in 2001. That's silly talk and reminds me of religious views, where you're born a sinner and commanded to be well."

In your other post in this thread I am "mentally childish"

Oh dear, the same old Sam, never mind the issues, let's go straight to the volley of insults !happy!

Cheers
D

[alicia_fan_uk]

David Johnson said:
> "all the measures put forward by the government are those of the Tories >and Lib Dems."
I understand the formal concept of Cabinet collective responsibility, but can you not see the pragmatic position here? Things are not always black and white. If you don't understand political horse-trading and compromise then I don't think there's much point continuing this discussion. And, if you were PM, you'd most likely get fuck-all done (even with a solid majority in the Commons).

Also, give yourself a break in terms of your "mistake" in voting Labout in 2001. Did you know Blair would be invading Iraq when you voted for Labour? Our responsiblity is only to choose to vote for whoever we think will best lead the country - it is up to them, if elected, to deliver on their promises. How can you translate one simple "X" into full and unequivocal support for absolutely everything that party then goes on to do for the next however many years!? If I told you that Blair called me a dick in 2002 (with cabinet backing), does this mean that you, by extension, also called me a dick?!?

alicia_fan_uk

[David Johnson]

You stated

"You admitted to making a mistake in 2001 but you never stated you refused to vote for them at the next election. If you had my opinion may have differed."

What I did say was that I made a mistake i.e. in voting for Labour in 2001 in the light of the subsequent invasion of Iraq which is sufficient in itself to contradict your statement that my attitude is like someone supporting a football team through thick and thin.

However, if you want chapter and verse about the 2005 election, here it is, a message posted in March this year.

http://bgafd.co.uk/forum/read.php?f=3&i ... ply_230076

In short your statement "Personally, my opinion is that he's like too many in this country and treats politics like supporting a football team; too many people take a side and it's in their blood forever....supporting them through the good and bad times, etc....think and thin, and all that. I think that mentality childish and unhelpful to us all."

is, in short, plainly nonsense.

CHeers
D

[Sam Slater]

[quote]In your other post in this thread I am "mentally childish"[/quote]

I didn't call you mentally childish. Fact.

[David Johnson]

"Also, give yourself a break in terms of your "mistake" in voting Labout in 2001. Did you know Blair would be invading Iraq when you voted for Labour?"

"Our responsiblity is only to choose to vote for whoever we think will best lead the country - it is up to them, if elected, to deliver on their promises.


Only partly agree. I sussed Cleggie awhile ago as basically a natural Tory. even though his pre-election promises and his party's manifesto suggested anything but. Most of what has subsequently happened in government has backed up my perception, given we have seen some of the most right wing vicious government plans for a generation.

The role of the voter is to interprete rather than swallow whole the statements and policies of the main parties prior to voting for them. The mistake I made about Blair was that he was already moving towards a pre-emptive strike type of foreign policy in terms of his support for Clinton's policy of bombing Iraq and a belief in "regime change". This accelerated particularly after 9/11 but was present prior to the 2001 election in which I voted for Blair.

CHeers
D

[Sam Slater]

[quote]What I did say was that I made a mistake i.e. in voting for Labour in 2001 in the light of the subsequent invasion of Iraq which is sufficient in itself to contradict your statement that my attitude is like someone supporting a football team through thick and thin.[/quote]

So your attitude's changed since 2005?

[David Johnson]

Ah a very Sam-type argument. I've missed you.

First you say about me

"Personally, my opinion is that he's like too many in this country and treats politics like supporting a football team; too many people take a side and it's in their blood forever....supporting them through the good and bad times, etc....think and thin, and all that. I think that mentality childish and unhelpful to us all

And then you say
"I didn't call you mentally childish. Fact."

THis is a mentally childish view. David has it. Of course this could never be thought of as an insult.

Anything that disguises the underlying issues eh Sam?

Cheers
D

[alicia_fan_uk]

But surely it's idealistic, if not downright naive, to expect a voter to agree 100% and on all issues with the party he/she ends up voting for? There's the age-old line about voting for the party you hate the least.....like many quips of its ilk, there's a lot of truth in that. (Also, perhaps you should have voted Lib Dem if you were anti-war.... !wink! )

Pretty much everything in life involves compromise; it's what keeps us from killing each other.

alicia_fan_uk