egafd.com

[quote]Sam seems to be in some distress.[/quote]

Yes, you'd be surprised how too much laughing can incapacitate a victim.

I think it funny how when I spend months on end replying I get accused of not having a social life, and when I refrain from replying I'm conveniently quiet. I come back and now I'm angry and confused.

The 'mad' poster is the one that's gone on and on and on about this subject for 3 months solid. This is more than just frustration at losing the election, and the Lib Dems conceding so much to the Tories....oh yes... I'm beginning to think you're angry at yourself as much as the current political situation.

My only advice to you (cos I'm a nice guy like that) is to look within. Only there will you find peace.

David Johnson wrote:

>>


And of course Labour governments have *always* rigidly adhered to all their manifesto promises and their core principles, haven't they Dave? !laugh! !laugh!

- Eric

I doubt any party in British political history has ever campaigned on one platform, then completely thrown it away once in office. Sure all parties lie, no party admits fully what they plan to do, but I don't recall ever experiencing or reading about any other party that fought a campaign as a left of centre party and ended up, within days of the election, lurching to the right and binning almost evrything it was supposed to stand for in the process.

What Labour became was a gradual thing and it took them more than a decade to get from left wing lunacy to right of centre. The Lib Dems managed it in less than a week.

Eric,

"And of course Labour governments have *always* rigidly adhered to all their manifesto promises and their core principles, haven't they Dave?"

Of course you are correct. But I have never said that they have "*always* rigidly adhered to all their manifesto promises and their core principles".

And if you were to set yourself the appalling task of reading the messages I have posted, you would see I have frequently been critical of Blair and Brown in areas, particularly foreign policy and immigration.

What I have never seen however, is the sheer, unbelievable number of manifesto promises and core principles that the Lib Dems have thrown out within days and supported the opposite . If you can show me a list, Eric, of Labour manifesto promises and pre-election statements that is anywhere close to the Lib Dem list below, in terms of about change, I will have absolutely no problem in saying that I am talking out my arse.

Cheers
D

Vote for us for no 6billion of cuts this year. Throw that out.
Vote for us based on our beliefs in what would harm the country's economic recovery. Throw that out.
Vote for us for no Tory VAT bombshell. Throw that out.
Vote for no foreign policy in alliance with "homophobes, nutters and anti-semites in Europe" . Throw that out.
Vote for us for fairness in society. Throw that out when we support a budget claimed by independent, fiscal analysts to be regressive and hit the poorest in society.
Vote for us for keeping schools under the control of local authorities. Throw that out. Let's support all the schools being asked to become academies outside of council control.
Vote for fairness in our education system. Throw that out in favour of a cancellation of 700+ schools projects and instead in favour of money for "free" schools outside the control of local authorities.
Vote for no Trident. Throw that out though we will have a look at the costs.
Vote for us for no top down re-organisation in the NHS. Throw that out whilst we introduce plans to privatise the NHS.
Vote for us for a green vote against nuclear power. Throw that out, but we got a member of our party to lead the legislation for the new nuclear power stations. Good eh!
Vote for us for no increase in student fees. Throw that out, but we have been allowed to abstain on any increased charges.
Vote for consultation. Throw that out we dont want any real discussion from people, particularly parents as to what we think about our incredibly far-reaching schools programmes. Let's not bother with all this green paper rubbish, eh! Lets get that law through by the end of the week if we can?

Dave,

Just Google "Labour broken manifesto promises" and you'll be up all night reading.

I think that you're forgetting that we now have a coalition government, and of course that's involved the both the LibDems and the Tories having to make compromises and ditch / modify "cherished" pledges.

Now you may or may not agree with that, but that's how coalition governments work. It's the nature of the beast.

Of course, if the LibDems had ended up jumping into bed with *your* lot, it would have been much the same story, namely mucho horse-trading and policy changes in order to arrive at a working coalition. But no doubt you wouldn't have been complaining about it half so much then !wink!. In fact you'd have probably been pointing out to Sam what I'm pointing out to you now.

But as it is, you're sounding like a spurned suitor. Them grapes am a bit sour, methinks.

- Eric

Eric,
First you say

"Just Google "Labour broken manifesto promises" and you'll be up all night reading."

I did and came across Iain Dale, that stalwart of Conservative supporters. He stood at the last election as a Conservative, writes for that left wing paper, the Daily Telegraph, was Chief of Staff for the Tory David Davies and came up with such earth-shattering broken manifesto promises as "harder A-level questions to challenge the most able "

Oh my god, those Labour bastards promised to make A level questions harder and according to right wing Iain Dale, they didnt!!!!!!

Hardly of the same order as being against 6 billion of cuts this year because its going to bugger the economy and changing your mind within days, is it really? Or saying you are for local councils keeping control over schools and then supporting Gove's offer to all schools to become academy schools outside council control? Or vilifying the Tories for being in league with "homophobes, anti-semites and nutters" in Europe and then allowing it meekly to continue?

Then you say
"I think that you're forgetting that we now have a coalition government, and of course that's involved the both the LibDems and the Tories having to make compromises and ditch / modify "cherished" pledges. Now you may or may not agree with that, but that's how coalition governments work. It's the nature of the beast."

Ive got news for you Eric, I havent forgotten it. And I have heard ad infinitum or ad nauseum depending on your viewpoint from others on this forum about this is the new politics, consensus politics blah, de blah. The point that is being missed by the Lib Dem apologists is that instead of a coalition government which the Lib Dems went into and signed away the vast majority of their manifesto promises and core principles they could have adopted a much looser arrangement called confidence and supply which would have allowed them to support certain Tory measures without signing away the vast majority of their principles. It was this approach that David Steele, Charles Kennedy, Shirley Williams, Menzies Campbell wanted Clegg to follow. But in Clegg's case the lure of power in a coalition even though he had to throw out Lib Dem principles by the bucket load was far more exciting than a looser arrangement without a coalition and without government jobs but which enabled the Lib Dems to keep at least a modicum of self respect.


"Of course, if the LibDems had ended up jumping into bed with *your* lot, it would have been much the same story, namely mucho horse-trading and policy changes in order to arrive at a working coalition. But no doubt you wouldn't have been complaining about it half so much then . In fact you'd have probably been pointing out to Sam what I'm pointing out to you now."

No it wouldnt have been the same story. You are totally wrong. Why? Because this Tory government is the most right wing in a generation. The Labour party and the Lib Dems, based on their manifestos at least are both centre left. An agreement between these two parties would have been much more coherent rather than what we have now which is the "radical" Lib Dems propping up the most vicious Tory government we have seen since before Thatcher.

"But as it is, you're sounding like a spurned suitor. Them grapes am a bit sour, methinks."

No. Not sour grapes. Unlike a number of people on this forum I had Clegg sussed as a Tory before the election. It would be nice if the people on this forum who gave glowing endorsements for the Lib Dems prior to the election and their "radical" agenda, actually had the guts to admit "Fuck we got that wrong didnt we? The bastards have only gone and thrown most of their principles out of the window and propped up a ferociously right wing government.

But obviously that is asking far, far too much.

Have an nice day.

Cheers
D

... yep. *Definitely* a spurned suitor !laugh! !laugh!.

"But how could he .... the rotten cad. We were made for each other".

Dave, I'm welling up for you mate. Truly I am.

But don't worry. Time's a greast healer.

Nice cherry-pick on Iain Dale and the A level questions, by the way !wink!

- Eric !drink!

In summary, you disagree. Obviously you are more than welcome.

Not that your reply addresses any of the issues whatsoever in my posts about how the fuck a "radical " Lib Dem party ended up propping up the most right wing government in a generation determined to legislate on a huge range of issues which are totally against Lib Dem core values.

Does it?

Cheers
D

>>


Thanks Dave. Glad you support my right to disagree.

But you know, the funniest thing about you banging on and on about the LibDems abandoning their principles and how utterly shameful and terrible you think that is, is that you're a supporter of a party that ditched its own 'socialist' principles and 'core values' years ago !laugh!.

- Eric

... apart from authoritarianism and "big government" of course. They stuck with those!

- Eric