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I'm aware of what it was that led to the Stephen Lawrence inquiry. The inquiry by Lord Macpherson was like dropping an atomic bomb on the Police, they have had to watch themselves on many issues ever since. There are departments in the Met now that exist just to try and catch out Police officers, they call what they do 'integrity tests'. The Met is one of the oldest, if not THE oldest, Police forces in the world and after the Macpherson inquiry the name was changed. It went from being the Metropolitan Police Force to being the Metropolitan Police Service, after (I think it was) 170 years. The Met was changed beyond imagination by that inquiry.

It's interesting that you knew the guy, he sounds like a nasty piece of work from what you say, and he certainly is if he's guilty of this. I've always been puzzled as to why Broadwater Farm was so savage when, say, Brixton four years earlier was nothing like that. They torched buildings and injured some Police in Brixton (but not badly, the coppers were what you'd call 'walking wounded') where as in Tottenham in 1985 they hacked a Police officer to death and tried to hack to death at least one other. Brixton was a result of heavy-handed stop and search methods where the Police were targeting black youth, Broadwater Farm was about, as you know, the death of someone in their home during a Police raid - but issues between the local community and the Police had no doubt been bubbling away for some time and the person dying was the straw that broke the camels back. Following that the whole area exploded.

Regarding Mark Duggan's shooting being what started the 2011 riots, I got the impression things would not have kicked off had it not been for what happened straight after. A local demonstration was taking place outside the Police Station following Duggan's death and the Police had parked cop cars along the route of the march. I'm not sure how this contributed exactly, but one marcher said later that the Police cars parked along the route the marchers were taking was like a red rag to a bull. Things went off that night.

You mention Stephen Lawrence living in a very racist area, I seem to recall he lived in Plumstead and he was murdered in Eltham a couple of miles away. People have described Eltham as a very racist area before but I don't think Plumstead is. I don't live in that region of London anyway. Also for people to brand Eltham as racist because some people there are is as bad as someone saying Brixton is full of muggers - because some of the population there are. Something which would not be acceptable. I'm sure there are a lot of people in Eltham who were, and still are, appalled at what happened to Stephen Lawrence in that part of London 20 years ago.

Torching a furniture shop, nicking DVD's and trainers, certainly has nothing to do with people getting even with the Police over a shooting. That has always baffled me. I remember someone saying after the riots in 2011 that in some countries they riot for food, where as in Britain they riot for tracksuits. All rather odd and unjustifiable.

The 2011 riots also gave people a platform to complain on TV about anything to do with society they were angry about. People started to go on about how it was unemployment that caused it, lack of youth opportunity, high tuition fees meaning youngsters couldn't afford to go to University, and just about everything else anyone could think to complain about. The TV media gave a voice to anyone who wanted to moan following the riots. Why people rioted in other parts of England when the issue was Mark Duggan's shooting in London I've always found rather strange. People looking for an excuse I think.

Essex Lad wrote:

they riot and loot because they are bad people.

That is very dismissive of why riots happen. If that was the case why wait to be provoked? there would be a riot everywhere all the time if that were true. Riots are usually sparked by an offensive act...ie verdicts of not guilty. The shutters coming down on a frustrated public seeking answers to a police force that ddint provide answers for why they shot a youth dead...Ya know, that sort of thing


Max wrote:

I remember Winston Silcott became a buddie and mentor to local kids following his release from jail for the other murder which he DID commit. They must be very short of good role models if they are using someone like that to mentor the local kids.

Interesting comment Max. If you stop to consider that Winston has been a defender of his neighbourhood way before the murder charges which were self defence as his attackers were the aggressors that he got the best of...Ok he murdered them. I admit that doesnt do his image any favours. His neighbourhood saw him as a warrior defender to the young and weak. One only has to talk to the indigenous peoples around where he lives. Gangs from other areas were always going there taking the piss and Winston was the man that saw them off.

Max also wrote:

I'm not sure how this contributed exactly, but one marcher said later that the Police cars parked along the route the marchers were taking was like a red rag to a bull. Things went off that night.

EXACTLY youre not sure how this contributed exactly. I do but I can tbe bothered to explain when the facts are already in the media. Lets just say htings got a bit left of centre when people got frustrated when the shutters came down and was told to go home without any answers. A few people were there who saw it as an opportunity to pinch stuff in the chaos and the fuse was lit. Police cars were not "a red flag to a bull" until the riot started

Sigh I think its fair to say you've made up your mind how it all went down and everyone who gets nicked is guilty

Nicky Jacobs was a junky lunatic psycho and its probably his lack of friends that might make him an easy candidate to go down for this so the police can get closure. I hope I am wrong because I owe no allegiance to the guy but I would rather see the right man get convicted if indeed he is.

"It went from being the Metropolitan Police Force to being the Metropolitan Police Service, after (I think it was) 170 years. The Met was changed beyond imagination by that inquiry".

Really. Same old police who haven't learnt any lessons methinks.
What's wrong with the police being open, honest, accountable and transparent? Do we really need police who themselves break the law, possibly incompetent and indulge in dubious practices (like using the identities of dead babies).
Being the police ain't an easy job but they can help themselves by improving their standards, training and dismissing bad and bent cops. Every organisation can improve. No organisation is perfect.

There should be a like button for what cockney geezer said

I don't think that's too much to ask for either. Good cops like good soldiers are all the more heroic by the deeds they do. Not just by virtue of their occupation

"Torching a furniture shop, nicking DVD's and trainers, certainly has nothing to do with people getting even with the Police over a shooting. That has always baffled me. I remember someone saying after the riots in 2011 that in some countries they riot for food, where as in Britain they riot for tracksuits. All rather odd and unjustifiable."

Personally I do not find this odd at all. In rioting there is nearly always a trigger e.g.

The 1985 Brixton riot was triggered when the Met Police shot the mother of a police suspect, Michael Groce.
Broadwater Farm riot, residents of Tottenham riot against the Metropolitan Police following a death during a police search.
The Poll Tax riots had an obvious trigger.
1995 Brixton riot against the Metropolitan Police occurred after a death in police custody
2011 The Tottenham riot was triggered by the shooting of Mark Duggan by the police.

etc. etc. etc.

In any riot situation, there will always be a criminal element that takes advantage of this for their own hands. That is the same throughout the world. As to people who steal tracksuits and leisure wear, obviously this is rather pathetic, but completely understandable.

Britain is an extreme capitalist country where from a very early age people are bombarded with aspirational adverts for all sorts of goods. Magazines bang on endlessly about celebrities, their wealth and the exclusive clothes they wear. Kids buy in to all this so you see lots of competition between kids as to who has the latest "in" trainers, tracksuits, fashion gear etc etc. So it is no surprise whatsoever that when riots broke out in 2011 there were shops like Versace that got looted in Manchester as well as hi fi/audio shops like Bang and Olufsen.

So when you dangle aspiration in front of kids for decades and they have no chance whatsoever of fulfilling that aspiration in large parts of the country then you are are asking for trouble.

You sure its capitalist David? In recent years it feels like we are a socialist country

Lol.

Well I did use the word "extreme" cos it has many similarities with the USA where the pursuit of money is everything and the gap between rich and poor grows ever wider