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Callipygea wrote:
>
>
> Generally speaking I support the main thrust of your
> arguments; my original point was that there are some things,
> almost certainly illegal, that I am happy to see
> banned/censored

I am in agreement with you on this also, you made the point about artistic context. This is the problem - the BBFC would not censor a mainstream movie showing violence, eg right wing thugs, but in the context of a porn film they seem to have a great deal of difficulty with any violence, even artistic depictions of such (not actual violence) and therefore they will cut it. Personally, I have always preferred if gunplay or physical violence is kept out of porn. However, you still need leeway to allow artistic license so that illegal acts, in the "real" world, can be shown where they are required in the context of the story, as they would be in a mainstream movie, and this leeway does not seem to be available.

This has been one of the best disscusions yet as it shows loads of different opinions,,,all of which are valid...Joe the stuff that concerns me is not of real sexual nature it is born out of sensationalism,,,,If tonight on live TV there was an execution most people would tune to it whether they were pro or against it cause they are basicaly nosey.
Producers who set out to shock in a porn movie are guilty of the same offence as a broadcaster who broadcasts the above. People don't really want the stuff they just feel there is a novilty/shock value.
I believe as a producer who puts my money where my mouth is(everyone gets paid in my movies)that I have a responsibilty to produce what I feel the "punter" really wants and as I recieve loads of letters & e-mails every day telling me what they want I use them as guidance.
Violet Storm's Hightide days are over, she is now appealing to a more mainstream market I will send you some of her latest pictures (done at the weekend) and for my part she has done well to turn her career around from that hard look to this new one...I guess I censored her in a round-about way.

Phil McC

pasta wrote:
>This is the problem - the BBFC would
> not censor a mainstream movie showing violence, eg right wing
> thugs

Well of course I am wrong there actually, because the BBFC recently did cut Baise Moi for a violent rape scene, and have in the past censored scenes of illegal activity (violence, drug taking) where not justifed in the context of the story.
Of course, as much fictional mayhem and murder as you like is allowed, provided you have that all-important justification!

Baise Moi is an interesting film to consider on the point of discussion, being directed by a woman and containing scenes of genuine sex (though passed at 18) and violence together.

Of course it has absolutely nothing to do with the topic of this forum, so it's time to get back to discussing Teresa May's tits.

I am in agreement with Phil's sentiments - a very interesting discussion. There are two things that come through, however, that have appeared previously, and as a foreigner who chooses to live in England (no, I'm not an asylum seeker or a economic refugee!) I am fascinated, and would like to have some idea o why they come up.
Why is porn in the UK perceived to be a working class interest and activity, and why is reference made to right wing thugs, never left wing thugs? Just asking, and apologies to Alec for going so far off topic.

Flett wrote:
>
> Why is porn in the UK perceived to be a working class
> interest and activity, and why is reference made to right
> wing thugs, never left wing thugs?

This would take a PhD thesis to answer controversially, but I'll have an equally controversial go in a few lines (speculation here, feel free to disagree and I am aware of the unscientific nature of the generalisations that follow). I think the first is partly connected to intellectual snobbishness - most of those who disapprove of porn for feminist reasons tend to be middle-class intellectuals who make the assumption that those who use porn are working class. They assume that all middle-class people are either of the same political opinions as them or part of the Mary Whitehouse brigade. The upper classes have always gone their own free-wheeling sexual way provided it didn't happen in front of the servants or frighten the horses. Someone (probably an academic sociologist) got in touch with a contributor to aftvx a few months ago. He was doing research on 'communities' on the internet and studied three ngs one of which was aftvx. I saw his draft paper and it contained several assumptions (all partly false) about the nature/background of men who use porn. As to the second - right wing thugs because they are in the news at the moment perhaps and they may be more common (both senses?) than left wing thugs (speculation again, not to mention my own intellectual snobbishness!).

>Just asking, and
> apologies to Alec for going so far off topic.
No problem.

This could be a can of worms, Alec, but I won't rise to the bait. Thanks for the answer.

That's why I hedged my answer about with so many qualifications.

Flett wrote:
>
[snipped a bit]
> Why is porn in the UK perceived to be a working class
> interest and activity, and why is reference made to right
> wing thugs, never left wing thugs? Just asking, and
> apologies to Alec for going so far off topic.

First point, I am not sure that it is as you suggest, and if it is so, I am not sure. Alec certainly had a good stab at it, and I won't waste more space on it.

Second point. Speaking personally, it just so happened to be something topical that sprang to mind that was vaguely relevant to the ongoing discussion. Also, left-wing violence is not so common here as such. Violence from that end of the political spectrum is perhaps more characterised as say, animal rights extremists or more recently anti-capitalists. I guess I could easily have used that as an example, but perhaps it indicates a slight unconscious bias on my part.
I could go into more detail but I feel that this is a bit of an indulgence on this forum.

working class person watching videos showing naughty bits = porn

middle class person watching videos showing naughty bits = erotica

upper class person watching videos showing naughty bits = home movie

"provided it didn't happen in front of the servants" - a bit tricky, as it was usually with the servants!

woodgnome wrote:
> upper class person watching videos showing naughty bits =
> home movie
>
> "provided it didn't happen in front of the servants" - a bit
> tricky, as it was usually with the servants!

Do you speak from personal experience?