Muslim women + veils
-
c.j.jaxxon
- Posts: 1465
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: Muslim women + veils
Oh yeah! That won't stop so as long as there is an anti-anything other than UK or US or anything darker than the majority! (I'm being nice)
-
Sam Slater
- Posts: 11624
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: Muslim women + veils
Why are some schools threatened with court action, because they've sent Muslim girls home who refuse to take off their hijab, yet if a white girl got sent home for wearing a baseball cap, you'd be luaghed at if you said you were taking the school to court?
Why are Muslim women allowed onto public transport with their bus passes (which have a picture on), and the first bus driver that refused a woman a ride because she wouldn't remove her hijab, and show the driver her face, get the sack?
Why are people asked to take off motorcycle helmets in a bank, yet the hijab goes unquestioned?
Why would I get fined for riding a motorcycle without a helmet, yet Sikhs are allowed by law?
Is this all discrimination, and is discrimination legal?
Why are Muslim women allowed onto public transport with their bus passes (which have a picture on), and the first bus driver that refused a woman a ride because she wouldn't remove her hijab, and show the driver her face, get the sack?
Why are people asked to take off motorcycle helmets in a bank, yet the hijab goes unquestioned?
Why would I get fined for riding a motorcycle without a helmet, yet Sikhs are allowed by law?
Is this all discrimination, and is discrimination legal?
[i]I used to spend a lot of time criticizing Islam on here in the noughties - but things are much better now.[/i]
-
Bob Singleton
- Posts: 1975
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: Muslim women + veils
LOUI$E EVANS wrote:
> Just going on the ones I know and have spoken to and things I
> have seen
>
> Just an opinion - take it I still have one - or should I shut
> up and stand down like the muslim women?
Just how many Muslim women do you know then? And why does your experience lead you to post here that ALL Muslim women are brainwashed by their menfolk? Have you ever thought of engaging your brain before opening your mouth/posting in a forum?
Should your opinion (that is obviously based on nothing more than your prejudice and lack of education) be tolerated? I'm not so sure, as the more ill-judged comments like yours are posted, the more other idiots will believe them as facts!
Have a look at the following article for a start:
This is an educated Muslim woman able to cogently express an opinion and explain her reasons for wearing a veil. You could learn from her!
How often do I have to keep telling you... you really should only comment on things you know something about!
> Just going on the ones I know and have spoken to and things I
> have seen
>
> Just an opinion - take it I still have one - or should I shut
> up and stand down like the muslim women?
Just how many Muslim women do you know then? And why does your experience lead you to post here that ALL Muslim women are brainwashed by their menfolk? Have you ever thought of engaging your brain before opening your mouth/posting in a forum?
Should your opinion (that is obviously based on nothing more than your prejudice and lack of education) be tolerated? I'm not so sure, as the more ill-judged comments like yours are posted, the more other idiots will believe them as facts!
Have a look at the following article for a start:
This is an educated Muslim woman able to cogently express an opinion and explain her reasons for wearing a veil. You could learn from her!
How often do I have to keep telling you... you really should only comment on things you know something about!
"But how to make Liverpool economically prosperous? If only there was some way for Liverpudlians to profit from going on and on about the past in a whiny voice."
- Stewart Lee
- Stewart Lee
Re: Muslim women + veils
Leave her alone to say what the fuck she wants.
-
Mysteryman
- Posts: 878
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: Muslim women + veils
Muslims account for 3% of the population of the UK. At present, items of news dealing with Muslim issues, worldwide, account for around 15% of UK news bulletins. Partly this is because Blair's foreign policy is parked somewhere up Bush's posterior but there are many other issues nearer home.
I lived the first 39 years of my life, until 1986, in the Northwest of England. At one time I held a senior position in public life. I met and dealt with a great many Muslims in the area through my professional life and have met a great many around the world since.
The last 14 years of my time there I lived in Bolton and then near enough to Blackburn. There was a Muslim population, mainly Pakistani, who had either come for work in the mills in the 1950s and early 1960s or were the children of those people. Almost all were law abiding. The men integrated to a point but there was a problem with the women, most who didn't learn English and many of whom rarely left the home.
As the populations grew they opened mosques, some in redundant churches, later they built new mosques. The children learnt English and went to normal schools (as the majority still do). However demands were being made. In the mid 1980s it was unusual for girls to be allowed to wear trousers to school. Gym kit and participation in games was mandatory. Of a sudden this became an issue for Muslim girls.
Their fathers demanded they wore trousers as part of the uniform, they were excused gym, or were allowed to wear track suit bottoms when the British girls had to wear shorts. The British girls particularly resented the trousers rule as they had campaigned for and been denied the right to wear trousers, especially in the winter - which can be quite nasty on the fringes of the Pennines.
Going back in history, The UK has had an excellent record with regard to integration. Since the 17th century the Huguenots, Jews from all quarters, Irish, Armenians, Poles, Ukrainians, Hungarians, West Indians, East and West Africans, East African Asians, Vietnamese and many other ethnic groups have arrived and been integrated.
Sometimes the integration has been difficult, particularly when jobs and housing have been at a premium and both the Irish and West Indians have had problems, suffered discrimination and, in the 19th century, there were repeated anti Irish riots. There are still problems with certain pockets of the Caribbean culture, especially in regard to guns and drugs but, in the main, integration has been achieved without long term friction.
So why is it that the Muslims seem to be being treated differently?
Accepting that the majority are happy to practice their religion in private and work within the framework of UK society one has to look a little further for reasons.
These can be found quite easily by listening to the rabble rousing preachers and the hot heads that follow them.
The first is the nature of their religion. Unlike all other groups that have integrated, Muslims practice a creed which allows sects who espouse Jihad as a method of spreading and sustaining their beliefs. They rarely openly criticise Muslim terrorists at home or abroad and certain preachers have freely stirred trouble by glorifying their "martyrs" whilst demanding protection from the very State they wish to overturn.
Secondly, where they live in ghettos in areas of the major conurbations, they are vociferous in their efforts to have their culture imposed on the locality and populace.
Third, they practice a very unequal approach to the sexes which, under UK statute, are deemed equal in every way and state their religion teaches that the "infidel" law is anathema.
Fourth, they are unwilling to have any criticism of their religion. Any remark that could be construed to criticise, let alone lampoon or mock, is taken as blasphemy - and blasphemy is punishable only one way. Where they can't carry out the prescribed punishment, they build up internal resentment and that is passed to the kids who, as we see, are becoming disaffected.
Fifth, they believe they have the right to try, condemn and punish any in their own community who transgress their laws. Look at the honour killings of women, for instance, unheard of in the UK 20 years ago.
Sixth, certain high profile Muslims, and many of the young hot bloods, have openly stated they want to see a Muslim UK. Some people look at the Muslim birthrate compared to that for the UK overall and have, at least for the immediate future, unreasonable nightmares.
In short, there is a very noisy and high profile part of the Muslim community that is hell bent on causing trouble, working on the fears generated by Muslim terrorists and determined that they will not live the life of normal UK citizens.
The use of the veil by Muslim women is seen by many in the UK as being a very bold statement of a determination not to integrate, not to abide by the norms of the society in which they have either chosen to live or into which they have been born and as a statement of a determination to change at least their locality into another ghetto.
Over the centuries, even where there has been short term local difficulties with integration, incoming groups have been seen to enrich the culture, language, culinary skills and diversity of the UK whilst becoming part of the whole.
The Muslims are perceived by many in the population to be different. Due to a few hot heads and the general drought of criticism from community leaders, they are seen as a very real and dangerous threat. In general they seem to be disinterested in becoming part of the general populace, they seem indifferent to criticism from outside until it is aimed at their religion when they immediately ignite, they are seen to have little to offer to advance society from their culture (a shame as Muslim art and literature are jewels in the crown of mankind's achievements) and their standoffishness coupled with the actions of their co-religionist terrorists around the world generates fear, loathing and hatred.
The use of the black veil has, in many quarters, become a red rag to a normally docile bull as it is a badge of separation, saying "we are different to and even better than you" and, far worse "we will live here, take everything we can but reject you and your culture".
I often go back to the towns of North West England. Certain areas are now ghettos. In the UK ghettos have generally lasted for a generation or two then the incomers have dissipated and integrated and by the end of three or four generations the ghettos have been taken over by the next set of incomers.
We are about 50 years into the the immigration period for Pakistani Muslims. Around 2 generations. Instead of starting to level off and integrate, the ghettos are getting larger, more insular and less open to mixing with the general populace.
I think that is why there is so much disquiet.
I lived the first 39 years of my life, until 1986, in the Northwest of England. At one time I held a senior position in public life. I met and dealt with a great many Muslims in the area through my professional life and have met a great many around the world since.
The last 14 years of my time there I lived in Bolton and then near enough to Blackburn. There was a Muslim population, mainly Pakistani, who had either come for work in the mills in the 1950s and early 1960s or were the children of those people. Almost all were law abiding. The men integrated to a point but there was a problem with the women, most who didn't learn English and many of whom rarely left the home.
As the populations grew they opened mosques, some in redundant churches, later they built new mosques. The children learnt English and went to normal schools (as the majority still do). However demands were being made. In the mid 1980s it was unusual for girls to be allowed to wear trousers to school. Gym kit and participation in games was mandatory. Of a sudden this became an issue for Muslim girls.
Their fathers demanded they wore trousers as part of the uniform, they were excused gym, or were allowed to wear track suit bottoms when the British girls had to wear shorts. The British girls particularly resented the trousers rule as they had campaigned for and been denied the right to wear trousers, especially in the winter - which can be quite nasty on the fringes of the Pennines.
Going back in history, The UK has had an excellent record with regard to integration. Since the 17th century the Huguenots, Jews from all quarters, Irish, Armenians, Poles, Ukrainians, Hungarians, West Indians, East and West Africans, East African Asians, Vietnamese and many other ethnic groups have arrived and been integrated.
Sometimes the integration has been difficult, particularly when jobs and housing have been at a premium and both the Irish and West Indians have had problems, suffered discrimination and, in the 19th century, there were repeated anti Irish riots. There are still problems with certain pockets of the Caribbean culture, especially in regard to guns and drugs but, in the main, integration has been achieved without long term friction.
So why is it that the Muslims seem to be being treated differently?
Accepting that the majority are happy to practice their religion in private and work within the framework of UK society one has to look a little further for reasons.
These can be found quite easily by listening to the rabble rousing preachers and the hot heads that follow them.
The first is the nature of their religion. Unlike all other groups that have integrated, Muslims practice a creed which allows sects who espouse Jihad as a method of spreading and sustaining their beliefs. They rarely openly criticise Muslim terrorists at home or abroad and certain preachers have freely stirred trouble by glorifying their "martyrs" whilst demanding protection from the very State they wish to overturn.
Secondly, where they live in ghettos in areas of the major conurbations, they are vociferous in their efforts to have their culture imposed on the locality and populace.
Third, they practice a very unequal approach to the sexes which, under UK statute, are deemed equal in every way and state their religion teaches that the "infidel" law is anathema.
Fourth, they are unwilling to have any criticism of their religion. Any remark that could be construed to criticise, let alone lampoon or mock, is taken as blasphemy - and blasphemy is punishable only one way. Where they can't carry out the prescribed punishment, they build up internal resentment and that is passed to the kids who, as we see, are becoming disaffected.
Fifth, they believe they have the right to try, condemn and punish any in their own community who transgress their laws. Look at the honour killings of women, for instance, unheard of in the UK 20 years ago.
Sixth, certain high profile Muslims, and many of the young hot bloods, have openly stated they want to see a Muslim UK. Some people look at the Muslim birthrate compared to that for the UK overall and have, at least for the immediate future, unreasonable nightmares.
In short, there is a very noisy and high profile part of the Muslim community that is hell bent on causing trouble, working on the fears generated by Muslim terrorists and determined that they will not live the life of normal UK citizens.
The use of the veil by Muslim women is seen by many in the UK as being a very bold statement of a determination not to integrate, not to abide by the norms of the society in which they have either chosen to live or into which they have been born and as a statement of a determination to change at least their locality into another ghetto.
Over the centuries, even where there has been short term local difficulties with integration, incoming groups have been seen to enrich the culture, language, culinary skills and diversity of the UK whilst becoming part of the whole.
The Muslims are perceived by many in the population to be different. Due to a few hot heads and the general drought of criticism from community leaders, they are seen as a very real and dangerous threat. In general they seem to be disinterested in becoming part of the general populace, they seem indifferent to criticism from outside until it is aimed at their religion when they immediately ignite, they are seen to have little to offer to advance society from their culture (a shame as Muslim art and literature are jewels in the crown of mankind's achievements) and their standoffishness coupled with the actions of their co-religionist terrorists around the world generates fear, loathing and hatred.
The use of the black veil has, in many quarters, become a red rag to a normally docile bull as it is a badge of separation, saying "we are different to and even better than you" and, far worse "we will live here, take everything we can but reject you and your culture".
I often go back to the towns of North West England. Certain areas are now ghettos. In the UK ghettos have generally lasted for a generation or two then the incomers have dissipated and integrated and by the end of three or four generations the ghettos have been taken over by the next set of incomers.
We are about 50 years into the the immigration period for Pakistani Muslims. Around 2 generations. Instead of starting to level off and integrate, the ghettos are getting larger, more insular and less open to mixing with the general populace.
I think that is why there is so much disquiet.
-
Bob Singleton
- Posts: 1975
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: Muslim women + veils
Steve R wrote:
> Leave her alone to say what the fuck she wants.
>
>
I take it then that it's OK to post prejudiced, ill-informed opinions and not have those opinions questioned if you're a girl that takes her clothes off and spreads her legs for you?
Fuckwit!!
> Leave her alone to say what the fuck she wants.
>
>
I take it then that it's OK to post prejudiced, ill-informed opinions and not have those opinions questioned if you're a girl that takes her clothes off and spreads her legs for you?
Fuckwit!!
"But how to make Liverpool economically prosperous? If only there was some way for Liverpudlians to profit from going on and on about the past in a whiny voice."
- Stewart Lee
- Stewart Lee
Re: Muslim women + veils
I've actually no idea who she is as I have no interest whatsoever in pornography.
Question her comments by all means, Mr Simpleton, but to admonish her against commenting at all, in some patronising, crass, quasi-Wittgensteinian fashion, is neither big nor clever.
Question her comments by all means, Mr Simpleton, but to admonish her against commenting at all, in some patronising, crass, quasi-Wittgensteinian fashion, is neither big nor clever.
-
c.j.jaxxon
- Posts: 1465
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: Muslim women + veils
Sam I explained in another thread here that it is common curtiousy for a MAN to take off his hat when he inters a room or home or whatever but a woman don't have to do that as a hijab or some other decorative hats women wear is part of their headdress. So no! It ain't discriminatory!
-
c.j.jaxxon
- Posts: 1465
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: Muslim women + veils
Well put and a good lesson in history.
-
Sam Slater
- Posts: 11624
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: Muslim women + veils
I can't fualt any of your points Mysteryman, and they were well put across too.
As I've said before, I've grown up -from the age of seven- in a community thats been predominantly Muslim. When I first moved to the area -1984- it was around 30% Pakistani, 20% Bengali, 10% Black, and 40% White. We all integrated pretty well without trouble, playing football & cricket most afternoons with no mention of racism or terrorism. I grew up at school learning as much about the Koran as the Bible, learning a little Urdu & Arabic too.
The Koran is a beautiful book in my opinion and you can find it -in English- online pretty easily. I don't think the religion itself is the problem. It's more to do with culture & practices that cause friction.
As more & more Muslims moved into the community, the Muslims seemed to become more & more ignorant of British culture, and segregated themselves more & more. Where we once had youth clubs for all, we started to get 'Asian' youthclubs. These were paid for by the local council and because the council had 'extra funds' for the asian community, they got getter equipment & more trips than the mixed youthclubs. Where the mixed youth clubs had 1 pool table with half the balls missing, the asian youth clubs had 3 new pool tables. This made the asian youths abandon the mixed youth clubs in favour of the asian youth clubs obviously. It not only made the white community feel they were getting a raw deal, but it seperated the youths up.
They then started buying out local (white) shopkeepers, and any that didn't want to sell seemed to get their windows smashed, or in 2 instances 'firebombed'. It got to a point where insurance for these businessmen was too costly and they were forced to sell. Muslims started their own 'take aways' as well, and by complete coincidence, asian youths started hanging around the local 'chinese' take away, and throwing fireworks through the door on a nightly basis for months until the Cantonese couple that owned the business got fed up and sold out. If you were of a skeptical nature, you would think that getting the local chinese take away out of the area was good business for the asian take aways.......correct?
Over the last 10 years, we've had riots and clashes of culture quite often with Muslims. With whites right? Well actually no..........with the Somali immigrants that moved into the area in the late 90's, and now we have trouble with Kosovan immigrants. I've lost count at the amount of Somali & Kosovan families that have had to be re-housed for their own safety because of asian threats. One Kosovan family's house was firebombed because a Kosovan man 'wolf whistled' at a Pakistani girl coming home from college. When the police tried to arrest the asian men that were causing trouble, the whole Muslim community threatened to riot so the police had to remove the Kosovan family just to keep the peace. Now how many white communities threaten riots just to get the Pakistani family out of the neighbourhood, and would the police & local council give in to those threats? Yep....the Muslim communities are definately treated differently, and hold more influence than any other community in the UK.
I've mentioned before that I was held at knifepoint as a 16 year old by a Yemeni man for kissing my girlfriend in front of his house. (we were just walking to the bus stop). Upon my father complaining to the police, we were told to forget it as it was just their custom not to kiss in public and the guy was afraid his wife & daughters may see. Again, what would happen to the white guy who had a 12" chefs knife held up to a Pakistani's throat?
I could go on, and on about buildings given over for Muslim support groups, (one an old Victorian School thats a 'listed' building, now almost derelict with it's 150 year old iron railings & gates sold to the scrapmen, along with the lead off the roof. They now have no heating either so maybe they sold the boilers & radiators?), or tell you about the ?1million in grants to the Muslim community that have gone missing without trace, or the racist remarks spray painted on walls around the area, or the local parks that are 'Muslim only' areas and any whites that tresspass get hospitalized. I really could go on & on.
And all this trouble from a community that supposedly only makes up 3% of the Uk's population.
Of course.....I can't really complain can I?.....being a white male makes me unable to, without being deemed 'racist'. We are threatened with the 'racist' tag if we voice our concerns or feel unfairly treated. In affect, the fear of that tag keeps us quiet.
Using fear to keep the population quiet? Sounds like Nazi Germany to me.....
As I've said before, I've grown up -from the age of seven- in a community thats been predominantly Muslim. When I first moved to the area -1984- it was around 30% Pakistani, 20% Bengali, 10% Black, and 40% White. We all integrated pretty well without trouble, playing football & cricket most afternoons with no mention of racism or terrorism. I grew up at school learning as much about the Koran as the Bible, learning a little Urdu & Arabic too.
The Koran is a beautiful book in my opinion and you can find it -in English- online pretty easily. I don't think the religion itself is the problem. It's more to do with culture & practices that cause friction.
As more & more Muslims moved into the community, the Muslims seemed to become more & more ignorant of British culture, and segregated themselves more & more. Where we once had youth clubs for all, we started to get 'Asian' youthclubs. These were paid for by the local council and because the council had 'extra funds' for the asian community, they got getter equipment & more trips than the mixed youthclubs. Where the mixed youth clubs had 1 pool table with half the balls missing, the asian youth clubs had 3 new pool tables. This made the asian youths abandon the mixed youth clubs in favour of the asian youth clubs obviously. It not only made the white community feel they were getting a raw deal, but it seperated the youths up.
They then started buying out local (white) shopkeepers, and any that didn't want to sell seemed to get their windows smashed, or in 2 instances 'firebombed'. It got to a point where insurance for these businessmen was too costly and they were forced to sell. Muslims started their own 'take aways' as well, and by complete coincidence, asian youths started hanging around the local 'chinese' take away, and throwing fireworks through the door on a nightly basis for months until the Cantonese couple that owned the business got fed up and sold out. If you were of a skeptical nature, you would think that getting the local chinese take away out of the area was good business for the asian take aways.......correct?
Over the last 10 years, we've had riots and clashes of culture quite often with Muslims. With whites right? Well actually no..........with the Somali immigrants that moved into the area in the late 90's, and now we have trouble with Kosovan immigrants. I've lost count at the amount of Somali & Kosovan families that have had to be re-housed for their own safety because of asian threats. One Kosovan family's house was firebombed because a Kosovan man 'wolf whistled' at a Pakistani girl coming home from college. When the police tried to arrest the asian men that were causing trouble, the whole Muslim community threatened to riot so the police had to remove the Kosovan family just to keep the peace. Now how many white communities threaten riots just to get the Pakistani family out of the neighbourhood, and would the police & local council give in to those threats? Yep....the Muslim communities are definately treated differently, and hold more influence than any other community in the UK.
I've mentioned before that I was held at knifepoint as a 16 year old by a Yemeni man for kissing my girlfriend in front of his house. (we were just walking to the bus stop). Upon my father complaining to the police, we were told to forget it as it was just their custom not to kiss in public and the guy was afraid his wife & daughters may see. Again, what would happen to the white guy who had a 12" chefs knife held up to a Pakistani's throat?
I could go on, and on about buildings given over for Muslim support groups, (one an old Victorian School thats a 'listed' building, now almost derelict with it's 150 year old iron railings & gates sold to the scrapmen, along with the lead off the roof. They now have no heating either so maybe they sold the boilers & radiators?), or tell you about the ?1million in grants to the Muslim community that have gone missing without trace, or the racist remarks spray painted on walls around the area, or the local parks that are 'Muslim only' areas and any whites that tresspass get hospitalized. I really could go on & on.
And all this trouble from a community that supposedly only makes up 3% of the Uk's population.
Of course.....I can't really complain can I?.....being a white male makes me unable to, without being deemed 'racist'. We are threatened with the 'racist' tag if we voice our concerns or feel unfairly treated. In affect, the fear of that tag keeps us quiet.
Using fear to keep the population quiet? Sounds like Nazi Germany to me.....
[i]I used to spend a lot of time criticizing Islam on here in the noughties - but things are much better now.[/i]