Why Cleggie bombed

[David Johnson]

"All perfectly correct though you failed to include the obvious caveat to #4. As I've said numerous times, and which you somehow take-in, but fail to mention after that information has gone through some strange filtering system within your head, I want electoral reform. I do not support any Tory/Lib Dem pact, or 'propping up' without that."

I suspect I understand far better than your good self. I will ignore the insults, by the way. To slightly amend the points that you have already agreed with then.

1You hate the Tory party
2 You vote for the Lib Dems
3. The Lib Dems and Tory party have manifestos diametrically opposed on numerous issues. Hence your attitude in points 1 and 2 above.
4 The Lib Dems prop up the Tory party and allow Cameron to be Prime Minister. I know - not yet agreed.
5. You are not disgusted that Cameron and the Tories might gain power, cause a double dip recession, shaft millions of the poor, follow many policies anathema to the Lib Dems as long as you get electoral reform.


Well that's clear now to all those Labour supporters who voted tactically for the Lib Dems in order to keep out Cameron and the Tories.

Before you come out with the "Clegg said he would talk to the Tories if they got the biggest vote before the election" how many people assumed that this would then result in 3 days of talks with the Conservative party and a very serious chance of Cameron becoming Prime Minister supported by Cleggie.

Gordon said after the election that he would talk to the leaders of all parties but I can state here and now if that conversation led to the Labour party going into a coalition or "agreement" with the Tories, I would be DISGUSTED and NEVER VOTE LABOUR AGAIN.

D

[Sam Slater]

Chill out, David. They're only talking. I'd be disappointed in Clegg if he refused to even discuss anything with the Tories after his promise.

And don't take what I said about your 'filtering system' as an insult. I was merely teasing you after all the 'naive' accusations and implications of not understanding simple things. Chill, David, chill.... We're still buddies.

[David Johnson]

"Chill out, David. They're only talking. I'd be disappointed in Clegg if he refused to even discuss anything with the Tories after his promise."

I'm very chilled thanks.

How about a comment then on my amended statement for point 5 given you hypothesise to the nth degree about what Cleggie's intentions are?

5. You are not disgusted that Cameron and the Tories might gain power, cause a double dip recession, shaft millions of the poor, follow many policies anathema to the Lib Dems as long as you get electoral reform.

Well that's clear now to all those Labour supporters who voted tactically for the Lib Dems in order to keep out Cameron and the Tories.


Cheers
D

[Sam Slater]

[quote]5. You are not disgusted that Cameron and the Tories might gain power, cause a double dip recession, shaft millions of the poor, follow many policies anathema to the Lib Dems as long as you get electoral reform.

Well that's clear now to all those Labour supporters who voted tactically for the Lib Dems in order to keep out Cameron and the Tories. [/quote]

Oh, sorry. I overlooked the amendments. Firstly, if electoral reform is granted, and it's a (almost) definite, then, yes, I'd look on a definite positive over suspected negatives.

I believe a fairer country must start with a fairer electoral system. In the long term, electoral reform is worth short term losses in terms of the economy. Why? Because if the Tories do fuck up the economy even more, and if we do get some form of PR, I can't see the Tories ever getting another overall majority in a very, very long time. And they know it, hence PR being a very hard pill to swallow. If we don't go into a double-dip recession and they do a good job (unlikely, I know) then we've still gained PR, which is good.

Now, if the Tories fuck up the economy and we don't even get electoral reform then we really can say Clegg fucked us over. That hasn't happened yet, though, so why the high blood pressure?

[David Johnson]

Thanks for reiterating my point about the Lib Dems and their supporters such as yourself.

Vote Lib Dems and you don't have a clue of what you are going to end up with. You may get Gordon Brown, you may get Cameron. You may get a radical agenda or you may get a Tory one.

The Lib Dems - Its like having a stocking hanging from your bed at Xmas.

Vote for them and you don't know who they are going to end up in bed with as long as that electoral reform is on the table.

As for the jibe about blood pressure, I don't know if you are talking about yourself, myself, the general public or whoever. As always though it is good for a Lib Dem supporter like yourself to reveal the utter hypocrisy of the Cleggie statement about the Lib Dems being the only "radical" party.

Hey we are radical, but if we get a chance of electoral reform, all of that stuff can go hang, boyo!

CHeers
D

[Sam Slater]

Maybe Liberal Democrats are just more open-minded and less prone to tribalism, David. The desperation to denigrate Clegg over the last month, and yet want him to come talk to your party when things aren't going too well says a lot. You want democracy and discussion but only on your terms and when it suits you.

And if you don't like jibes, stop giving them out.

[RoddersUK]

The cunt bombed because he wants to tie us deeper in to the Eu and scrap Sterling for the fucking useless Euro.

[David Johnson]

Which of the statements in the message that you replied to are incorrect concerning the actions of Clegg in this election and your own statements in this thread?

[David Johnson]

As a seemingly fervent Lib Dem supporter, just to remind you what you have agreed to earlier in the thread prior to my responding to your appeal to take the line of "democracy"

1You hate the Tory party
2 You vote for the Lib Dems
3. The Lib Dems and Tory party have manifestos diametrically opposed on numerous issues. Hence your attitude in points 1 and 2 above.
4 The Lib Dems prop up the Tory party and allow Cameron to be Prime Minister. I know - not yet agreed.
5. You are not disgusted that Cameron and the Tories might gain power, cause a double dip recession, shaft millions of the poor, follow many policies anathema to the Lib Dems as long as you get electoral reform.

And it will be just damn unfortunate for those Labour supporters who voted tactically for the Lib Dems and their "radical agenda" in order to keep out Cameron and the Tories. Because "Firstly, if electoral reform is granted, and it's a (almost) definite, then, yes, I'd look on a definite positive over suspected negatives"

So when your granny finds her home care costs have tripled as the costs of care in the Tory run Hammersmith council have rocketed (can you remember that thread you started off, by the way) you can give her the line of definite positives exceeding suspected negatives.

Cheers
D

[Sam Slater]

Well, I wouldn't say they were either correct or incorrect, since they were mainly your assumptions. But...

[quote]Vote Lib Dems and you don't have a clue of what you are going to end up with.[/quote]

Please. I supported Labour in '05, with Blair at the helm, promises that he'll go the full term and another promise of a referendum on the Euro. Not that any of those promises overly concerned me, but for many Labour supporters it might have. Your point is frivolous given the Lib Dems haven't been in such a position as this for 36 years. Most Lib Dem voters DO know what they'll end up with: either a Tory or Labour government again.

[quote]You may get Gordon Brown, you may get Cameron.[/quote]

You may get Blair, you may get Brown. You may get a referendum on the Euro you may not get a referendum on the Euro.......just to ram home those facts.

[quote]The Lib Dems - Its like having a stocking hanging from your bed at Xmas.

Vote for them and you don't know who they are going to end up in bed with as long as that electoral reform is on the table.[/quote]

Yes. Politicians come and go. Reforming the election process is one of the biggest leaps forward in..........I dunno....how long? (considering it happens).

[quote]As always though it is good for a Lib Dem supporter like yourself to reveal the utter hypocrisy of the Cleggie statement about the Lib Dems being the only "radical" party.[/quote]

Me? Revealing anything about Clegg? Here's me thinking I was just expressing my opinions. I didn't know I had any inside knowledge.