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Keith Rasputin wrote:

>>


"I think" ....... "I bet".

Says it all.

Fact is you don't know, nor can you know. You're just pissing in the wind.

Quite obviously you and A.A. have some axe to grind with the police.

Yes it's a tragedy. Yes there was probably some cock-up higher up in the chain with regard to intelligence-sharing. And yes, that needs to be addressed to prevent any repetition or at least reduce the chance of a similar thing happening again.

But as far as I'm aware, firearms officers have to at least shout a clear warning along the lines of "Stop - Armed Police" before opening fire. Presumably this was done in the way required. De Menezes' response however was to leg it, vault over station barriers and head off down into the bowels of the tube station, whereas any sane person would have immediately frozen to the spot and done whatever the the guys with the guns had ordered them to do. It turned out that he was in the UK illegally, which is presumably why he tried to scarper. And which was a fucking stupid (and for him ultimately fatal) thing to do, given the prevailing climate of fear over terrorist suicide bombings - remember this was only a couple of weeks after 7/7.

As I and others have said, the firearms officers on the ground do an almost impossible job and have to make life or death decisions in a split second. They can only act on the information they're given, and their own gut instincts based on how the suspect is acting.

"Just like there is no such thing as a 'humanitarian war' aka 'Operation Freedom Iraq..' then there is no such thing as killing somebody in 'good faith'"

I beg to differ. Like others have pointed out to you, the police officers seem to have genuinely believed there was an imminent danger of the suspect detonating a device on a tube train. Decisions had to be taken in split seconds (for that is all it takes to press the detonating button). What if they had hesitated and the dude turned out to be a real bomber? Unless you have knowledge of some ulterior motive for shooting DeMenezes dead, we must accept that he was shot 'in good faith' by officers fearing for both their own, and fellow citizens, lives. So, if the officers did not shoot the dude in good faith, and it was not a horrible mistake, then pray tell, why did they shoot him?


"Shooting somebody because you supposed they had a bomb isn't too convincing."

Sounds pretty convincing to me. If it ever came to the situation where I had drawn a bead on someone who I had good reason to believe was about to blow all and sundry to kingdom come, I would immediately shoot the bastard (with extreme prejudice), and then go and viciously kick the prone corpse/body of the evil scumbag for frightening me, for threatening me, and for threatening my friends, my associates, and any other innocent parties nearby. I would further lace into the loony bastard for upsetting me and causing me to get into a lather when I probably just wanted to chill out. I mean, what right had he? What right would he have had to set out to deliberately murder innocents, people who might be loved and cherished by their friends and families, simply to aggrandise himself (or his memory) and draw attention to some loony, pretentious, deluded, cause?


Officer Dibble

well the police must have thought he was acting suspicous as you said they usually shout freeze or something before shooting.

"But as far as I'm aware, firearms officers have to at least shout a clear warning along the lines of "Stop - Armed Police" before opening fire. Presumably this was done in the way required. De Menezes' response however was to leg it, vault over station barriers and head off down into the bowels of the tube station, whereas any sane person would have immediately frozen to the spot and done whatever the the guys with the guns had ordered them to do. It turned out that he was in the UK illegally, which is presumably why he tried to scarper. And which was a fucking stupid (and for him ultimately fatal) thing to do, given the prevailing climate of fear over terrorist suicide bombings - remember this was only a couple of weeks after 7/7. "

Flat Eric, this is nonsense. It is the spin which Scotland Yard was putting out after they had killed de Menezes, and it is totally false.

Under Operation Kratos, the armed officers do not issue any challenge, they shoot at the head to kill a suspected armed terrorist.

Menezes was never challenged, or given any chance to prove his innocence. After he sat down on the train, he was grabbed by one officer who pinned his arms to his sides. Another officer shot him 11 times iirc, 7 in the head.

The men who witnesses saw running and jumping over ticket barriers were the police. Menezes had walked normally onto the train, using his oyster card to get past the ticket barrier.

I am amazed that you are still spouting this rubbish, but it shows that police disinformation does work.

The point about this op is that Kratos gives the police huge powers, namely to kill someone without warning or challenge. To use these powers, it is obvious that the police must be absolutely certain that they have correctly identified the suspect, namely that he is who they think, and he is likely to be carrying a bomb. They clearly failed to do this, which is an absolute scandal.

We need to know how Menezes was wrongly identified (the police logs seem to have been altered by corrupt officers), we need to know if Cmdr Dick actually issued the order to kill the suspect using her Kratos authority, and if she did not, we need to know why the armed officers thought she had.

It is quite clear that this operation was a disaster, and we need to know the answers to these questions. It is equally clear that Scotland Yard is in full cover-up mode, and will not let the poor drones who pay for the police the right to know what they are doing.

The Met Police is treating us like mushrooms, and so far they are getting away with it. Compare and contrast the treatment meted out to Tony Martin, who actually shot two real burglars, and the police who killed a completely innocent man "in good faith". Equal before the law? Don't make me laugh.

Operation Kratos:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jh ... wstop.html

HEAR HEAR!

Sorry Flat Eric, can't open that link. Does it tell us anything new about Kratos?

Look y'all I gonna tell ya something. Now, I'm not a brit and I don't know what the police is up to there but three of your fellow postees seem to see a side of the po po y'all just don't want to see. I think we all want law and order in our towns and countries and the police makes mistakes but to dismiss them as they must've had a reason to shoot means to me that because of this terrorism thing, they've got itchy trigger fingers and need some more training. As far as I'm concerned you can't do enough not to look like a criminal because these days ANYBODY can be one! So you give these cops a pass on a mistake! Sure we had 9/11 and sure you had 7/7 but don't get to the point where all you have to say is "well he must've done something to make them shoot'em" or "well we live in an age of terrorism so they must be stopped". Man that's just outright giving in to your fears and you'll accept anything my or your tv and radio media says, your and my government says. And as you well know by now a terrorist can look like you or me. So yeah, the cops got a hard job to do. I'm a supporter of the FOP in Chicago as racist as they are, but you just can't KEEP making mistakes and then say "oh well!" As Muhammed Ali said "that's crazay"!

HEAR, HEAR!!