egafd.com

[quote]The ability to fail pain and to suffer is surely linked to intelligence.[/quote]

Erm.......no! !laugh! Maybe emotional pain and suffering, but not physical! Come on WRZ!

[quote]So morality does change according to the animal killed and the reason killed.[/quote]

I agree, I was just playing devils advocate as people seem to overreact to certain animal cruelty, and dismiss other animal death. As a race we are a selfish lot, and are very good at excusing one crime over another to make things more convenient for ourselves. The morals of killing a swan and a rat are different, but that scummy 'swan-killer's' morals aren't that far away from general societies morals........................really. It comes down to killing at the end of the day, regardless of the victim's species.

[quote]The point of the lower level organism is that are MORE of them - so killing ONE beetle does not affect the food chain as much as killing ONE tiger.[/quote]

Of course, of course......but it's believed that man has killed off more plant, fungal and insect species on the planet that mammalian, reptilian and fish species. It's the base of the food chain that holds that chain together......it's the 'base' after all.

[quote].....spiders don't feel pain, wasps don't feel pain....[/quote]

Does this make it right though? I mean, if I stamped on a lambs head hard enough, I could probably kill it instantaneously, with no pain. Or maybe a young calf is born with a disfigured spine and thus all its limbs are paralysed.......would it be ok to saw it's legs off for fun until it passes out through loss of blood (and dying while unconscious, feeling no pain)?

I know I'm just being difficult here, and I'm also angered by this idiot killing a pregnant swan, but you must admit that more people would be annoyed by me sawing off the legs of a baby -paralysed- calf, than pulling the legs of a daddy-long-legs. Both feel no pain, and both are in no way endangered, so why the difference in opinion?........I'll answer for you, it's because we don't see ourselves in insects. They have no human qualities in any way, so we feel better about ourselves in killing them.

Some people would rejoice hearing Michael Barrymore has been stabbed to death, but feel angry and would go to prison in vengeance of a swan. The guy with the air-rifle is a cunt, but knee-cappings, brain damage and comas in retaliation?

*sigh* Over-reaction springs to mind.

It's quiet funny though.............the reaction that is.

EDIT: Just to show how powerful these feelings are, upon proof reading/skimming my post I realised that a capitalised 'swan' but not 'rat'. Makes you think doesn't it?

At the risk of getting shot myself, we have the same sort of problem here. In our case it's a large eastern european immigrant influx who think it's perfectly ok to shoot swans for food, with a police force who won't take action because it will be seen as "racist" to arrest them.

There have been warnings, notices posted and all sorts along the river, but they still keep popping away at the swans and ducks.

Oh my, that is so horrible.
What is wrong with people that they have to do something like that?
I am a huge animal fan and always have been.
The other day I was walking to the shop and something bright and colorful caught my eye, it was a hamster cage just like mine, in and open rubbish bag.
I went over to see what it was and someone had just thrown this hamster, bedding, cage and all in the trash, the hamster was dead.
I am sure it was dead before they put it in the bag it still irked me that they could not even be bothered to put the hamster in a separate box so it had some sort of burial, they had just left the entire thing in an open rubbish bag. I am sure they loved that pet. Not. I thought that was unpleasant, but the swan thing is really horrible.

I was more upset with the swan shooting than the gun lunatic in Virginia killing 33.

Hi there Layla! Most women are animal lovers, so I get the impression that the creep who killed the swan doesn't get that many dates.

As for the hamster and burials, I remember my mother used to have burials for all our pets to the extent that I'm sure at least one of her horses were up in the garden. LOL

Ned wrote:

> At the risk of getting shot myself, we have the same sort of
> problem here. In our case it's a large eastern european
> immigrant influx who think it's perfectly ok to shoot swans for
> food, with a police force who won't take action because it will
> be seen as "racist" to arrest them.
>
> There have been warnings, notices posted and all sorts along
> the river, but they still keep popping away at the swans and
> ducks.

This is very true, a lot of these beautiful birds have 'vanished' from areas where immigrants from Eastern Europe have settled.
Same with the Polish community settling here, they think our prized carps are fair game to catch and eat. There's been some real problems with them and decent fishermen angling for sport who always return them for another day.
I have no problems with the Poles in general, but I find this a bit hard to stomach

Cant they settle for pigeons instead? no ones going to miss a few thousand of those rats with wings...or better still buy chicken like most normal folk do at the local butchers or supermarkets....Fuckin skinflints!

We're a bit short of foxes here as well Wozza, and I SWEAR some Romanians have moved in the next village! !wink!