Elton John tries to adopt a Ukranian boy...

[max_tranmere]

Reggie, I never said I approved of a single person adopting a kid. When I said that it is ok, in occasional circumstances, for a child to be raised by one adult, I was talking about the natural parent. A man/woman couple adopting a child is alright I think because the child's natural needs are being honoured as he or she is getting a man and a woman to raise them, and that is natural. They are also a couple who would naturally make a baby - as any man/woman couple obviously could, unless they are infertile of course. Two men or two woman, that is very very differnt. It is not the natural way of doing it, the association is one that makes it impossible to make a child, where as with the infertile man/woman couple there is nothing intrinsic to that association that automatically prevents it. The man and the woman who want to adopt would naturally be having a baby, but for the infertility that is there which prevents it. A male couple could never have a child - they are prevented from it by a lot more than something local to their relationship, like infertility. They are not built for, or meant to, have babies.

[Sam Slater]

[quote]but doing it as a selfish thing from the point of view of the adopting parents, when the gay couple are largely thinking about themselves and less about the kid, is wrong.[/quote]

In what way is wanting children selfish? Surely straight parents take the decision to have children because they want children; they're thinking of their own happiness too. I'd much rather have a couple as my parents who wanted children because it made them happy (selfish reasons) than parents who had children because it was expected, or the done thing (unselfish reasons). In this instance surely the parents who had children because it made them happy will create a more stable, happier home. The time selfishness becomes a problem is after the child is born/adopted and the parents put their own happiness before the child's all the time. Any selfishness before that is ok by me.

[quote]I know someone who grew up in a very male dominated environment, a single-sex boarding school, and he has had a lot less confidence with women as a result and he desribes the experience as 'unnatural'.[/quote]

I'd say growing up without your parents around is more unnatural than the sexuality of your parents. In other words, the problem was the boarding school.

[quote]So why then would some want to get into the straight thing and adopt a kid and raise it?[/quote]

Being straight is about sexuality, not parenting. How can becoming a parent be described as a 'straight thing'? That's just silly. Let us not forget that hundreds of thousands of gay children are brought up by straight parents already.

[quote]Young children would be very aware, even long before puberty, that kids are not delivered by storks, but come about as a result of their mum and dad getting jiggy between the sheets.[/quote]

And why can't gay parents teach this to children? Obviously the adopted childrens' real parents were a male and a female, and the foster parents would tell them so in an adult-like manner. It might only be confusing if dad and dad started bumming in front of them and tell them babies are made from that act also! Let's remember that lots of straight parents never even mention sex anyway, and leave that to the kids' schooling. I think you're not giving the kids enough credit in being able to work out the difference between having straight parents and gay ones, nor the gay parents enough credit in teaching their children about reproduction.

[quote]Seeing their two male 'parents' retiring to bed together each night would confuse the child a lot.[/quote]

It might have confused you....lol! Seriously, why would it confuse the child? What about children who's mums and dads sleep in separate rooms compared to, say, his/her friends' parents sleep together? Again, I don't think you're giving much credit to a child's ability to comprehend that what his/her parents do might be different to other kids' parents.

[Sam Slater]

And you repeating yourself is just avoiding my request for you to explain what you mean.

As usual?

[Sam Slater]

It's not important why I said it; only my point matters.

But since you ask, and since I'm not frightened of explaining my points on here, like some, I'll tell you why.

I think gay couples can be just as good parents as straight couples. Gay people can be as considerate, intelligent, loving, moral and protective as any straight person can. I cannot think of many things a gay couple cannot do that a straight couple can that would be detrimental to the child's upbringing.

This is why I have taken my stance on the matter, JRPornstar. Care to show me the same courtesy and explain not only your point about being off the mark, but why you think me so?

[Sam Slater]

[quote]Two men or two woman, that is very very differnt. It is not the natural way of doing it,[/quote]

Actually, you're wrong. Most anthropologists conclude that the reason humans are different to most other animals, in that they don't die soon after their reproductive years, is because grandparents are very helpful in the upbringing of children. In most primitive tribal societies young children are solely brought up by mothers and grandmothers. Fathers and grandfathers only really come into play in a child's development if the child is ready to learn hunting/tracking/building skills and that the child is male. By then the child is going on 12-13 anyway. So, for the most part children are brought up around two females.

Having two parents of a different sex is only needed for copulation, really. When it comes to rearing children, two parents of the same sex is pretty natural and assumed to have gone on for millennia.

[Lizard]

I dont think the issue is really about having Gay parents, and I agree with Sam and Reginald, that as long as the child gets a better life, and more importantly...is brought up to respect hetrosexual views on parenting as well, then surely it's better to simply have parents/parent who care for you and help you grow and choose your own way in life.
As far as EJ's concerned, sadly he is his own worst enemy, a vain man with a temper, who is used to getting his own way, and at 62? one has to ask, how long would it be before he tires of the daunting task that parenting brings? when the kids 20, EJ will be almost 80, and Mr Furnish may not be around anymore... Bad Idea in this case, he would be better off with a pair of al-paca's, and some more piano lessons.