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FROM WIKIPEDIA:

Allen claims to have grown up with her mother in a working class environment, living in a council house environment for most of her childhood.[10][11] This seems at odds with the fact that she attended some of the UK's costliest public schools; Allen attended 13 schools in all, including Prince Charles's junior alma mater, Hill House School, Millfield, Bedales School, and a primary school in Leixlip, Ireland,[9] and was expelled from several of them for drinking and smoking.

Max,
Its pop. Moon in June. My baby went and left me etc etc.
Its pop. Get it?

I was reading recently that most of these up and coming "Streetcred" performers are actually young toffs in disguise.

You can tell because when they sing they omit consonants completely before a vowel in an attempt to sound working class, eg "I'm in 'ospital" However this ommission is too pronounced to be genuine.In the old days performers often added a non existent consonant to a word to make it sound "Common", eg H-Education, pronc: "headucashion"

The most famous and extreme example of this are the kids who sang on Pink Floyd's, "Brick in the Wall" who it appears were encouraged to sing in a more defined "Common" manner, in spite of already already attending a normal working class comprehensive school.

eg:

We don't need NAH HEAD-UCASHON
We don't need NAH FORK CONTRARLL

and so on, no one ever talked like that! Well apart from Dick Van Dyke in Mary Poppins!

You don't understand David. You say:

"I am saying that if you have sufficient feel for something and the technical ability to deliver it, it can be very good even though the artists concerned have no real experience of the environment that spawned the music or the situation they are writing about."

I think that in general terms what I and others are saying is that these aren't artists. They're something else .. technicians perhaps ? In this respect 'artist' is a misnomer. If you're saying that someone like Allen is deserving of the same kind of consideration and esteem as say Ray Davies then i'd say you're mistaken.

"I think that in general terms what I and others are saying is that these aren't artists. They're something else .. technicians perhaps ? In this respect 'artist' is a misnomer.

You have a view that Lily Allen is not an artist. You are welcome to that view. I disagree. The history of art backs me up in highlighting the subjective nature of this, given that it is riddled with people ridiculing as crap what others regard as very artistic.

"If you're saying that someone like Allen is deserving of the same kind of consideration and esteem as say Ray Davies then i'd say you're mistaken".

No, I am not. As I said in a previous post, having agreed with much of what I said without realising it, you are now disagreeing with stuff that I have never stated.

Time to leave the thread, I think!

I thought you left it earlier David ?

"I will leave you to argue with yourself now"

The Shockwave NME Awards are currently on on Channel 4, and I have watched a bit. Lily Allen smirks all the time in a 'I am so cool, and I am kind of belittling myself by being here' sort of way. Why can't she, and most other artists there, have some humility? Muse were humbled by their award and spoke sincerely and appreciatively to the audience. Few others, including Lily Allen, did not.

perhaps?

I'd guess she's run out of creative ideas of how to re-invent herself ala kylie minogue so is taking a timeout

If she does comeback in 5 years for the 3rd album as has been reported who knows maybe she will find her fanbase has moved on...pop music is fickle like that...