egafd.com

"Only 0.03-0.04% means nothing if you don't know the potency of C02's ability to retain heat."

This 'potency' may be worth mentioning if we were discussing some experiment for children, using a Bunsen burner.

However, the earth is not heated by a huge Bunsen burner, it is heated by a star.

CO2 actually absorbs the sun's infra-red radiation, then re-radiates it. It does not 'trap' this infra-red radiation (heat) at all, just slows it down somewhat.

The process by which this takes place is a greatly complex one and is markedly affected by, among many other things, clouds.

Iron, copper and water aren't usually found in the sky, while helium escapes into space

erm, interesting logic, last time I was in a chemistry lecture iron and copper weren't gaseous molecules (at normal temperatures), and what do you think clouds are? Helium has a fixed volume in the atmosphere too at approx 0.0005%, it isn't produced by anything so if it escaped into space on anything like a regular basis that level would be variable.

some gases are variable in their atmospheric percentages such as methane, ozone, NOx etc, others are fixed N2 etc. But this is only the case up to approx 25km

molecules only escape into space from the exosphere

if what you say about gravity pulling molecules down towards the surface was correct then why do we not see high levels of ozone on the troposphere as opposed to the higher levels in the stratpsphere and the ozonosphere?

[quote]erm, interesting logic, last time I was in a chemistry lecture iron and copper weren't gaseous molecules[/quote]

I never said they were, and I never mentioned molecules either. I was talking of elements found in the atomic table, gaseous or not. Heavier elements condensed to form the Earth, lighter elements the atmosphere and even lighter ones escaped the Earth's gravitational pull altogether.

All molecules are made up of atoms. The atoms decide the behaviour of a molecule at certain temperatures, the atoms decide a molecules weight, and the atoms decide if the molecule is gaseous, liquid or solid (though nothing's really solid if you want to go that far !wink!)

[quote]and what do you think clouds are?[/quote]

I knew you was going to mention either water vapour or clouds. Covered myself in my previous post with the bracketed 'long term affects' bit. (end of second paragraph) Long term, at average temperatures here on Earth, co2 is too heavy to stay in the sky.

[quote]Helium has a fixed volume in the atmosphere too at approx 0.0005%, it isn't produced by anything so if it escaped into space on anything like a regular basis that level would be variable.[/quote]

Hmmm you have a point.............but since Helium is the 2nd most abundant element in the Universe, then it stands to reason that early Earth must have compromised of more than 0.0005% He! My guess is that He levels were indeed variable for billions of years, and who's to say it's stable now? Stable since we've been able to measure it maybe? What looks stable over 50 years may look variable over 1 million years. Anyway isn't a lot of He trapped up in other gasses? (not too sure on this).

[quote]if what you say about gravity pulling molecules down towards the surface was correct then why do we not see high levels of ozone on the troposphere as opposed to the higher levels in the stratosphere and the ozonosphere?[/quote]

We do have certain levels of ozone in the troposphere. Stratospheric ozone molecules are made naturally in the stratosphere (solar radiation and O2) Since 3 'O' atoms are heavier than 1 'O' atom I'm guessing gravity does slowly pull the ozone molecules towards Earth.

**Why we don't have as much ozone gasses in the troposphere is maybe the warmer temperatures break up these gasses and release their 'O' atoms, and thus becoming free Oxygen? The single O atoms are light enough to rise back up into the stratosphere and are again fused together by the solar radiation. The Earth is being bombarded with UV light all the time and new ozone gasses are constantly being made and falling to Earth....an ozone cycle!!! It explains why holes in the ozone can heal themselves.

** onwards is guesswork, and just a theory on why there are less ozone molecules in the troposphere. There may be another reason, but whatever, that programme didn't dare delve so deeply did it? For the sake of the programmes validity I guess....

[quote]It does not 'trap' this infra-red radiation (heat) at all, just slows it down somewhat.[/quote]

and if you take something in faster than you let something out you get what?



Accumulation maybe?

On the contrary; the effect is actually negligible.

thanks for the basic chemistry lesson!, i'll add that to my degree notes

helium is the second most abundant element due to stars- not planetary chemistry
Helium is an inert gas and does not easily combine with other elements. There are no known compounds that contain helium, although attempts are being made to produce helium diflouride (HeF2).
its appearance in the atmosphere appears mainly to come from radioactive decay.

I'm not going to go into ozone chemistry, there are too many variables, reactions (not just photochemical) and cycles that affect its atmospheric make up.
if you really want to know more look up a paper by SC Chapman
'a theory of atmospheric ozone'

as for water vapor, again this is a cyclic process, but at any one time there is a degree of vapour making up the atmosphere, concentrations vary around the earth.

this getting too much like work now, i'll end here

well if global warming shuts down the gulf stream then we may end up with a climate more like Siberia!!!!!

[quote]helium is the second most abundant element due to stars- not planetary chemistry[/quote]

Planet creation is due to stars also. The gaseous planets have lots of helium. I'm guessing early earth did so until the heavier elements condensed into a more sold mass we know today.

During the Hadean Eon, 4.6 to 3.8 billion years ago, the early atmosphere is thought to have been mainly Hydrogen, Helium, Argon and Nitrogen. Most of this early atmosphere was constantly being blown away by massive and constant meteor bombardment. Volcanic eruptions of nitrogen, sulfur and CO2 produced a second atmosphere that was different to the original one.

CO2 levels were apparently over 100 times more than they are today during the Precambrian but the sun's luminosity was around 25% less than today (though some say the sun was more luminous). Because of the amount of CO2 it was thought to still around 60 degrees on average, even with a sun that wasn't so bright. (yet CO2 has no affect on the planets temperature according to that programme).

Some of the rarest elements on Earth are Hydrogen and Helium. They're also some of the lightest. Some of the most abundant gasses are Nitrogen and Oxygen which are heavier. Gravity is the obvious answer.

[quote]Helium is an inert gas and does not easily combine with other elements. There are no known compounds that contain helium, although attempts are being made to produce helium diflouride (HeF2).[/quote]

Natural gas? Quoting Wikipedia: "On Earth it is created by the radioactive decay of much heavier elements (alpha particles are helium nuclei). After its creation, part of it is trapped with natural gas in concentrations up to 7% by volume. It is extracted from the natural gas by a low temperature separation process called fractional distillation."

[quote]I'm not going to go into ozone chemistry, there are too many variables, reactions (not just photochemical) and cycles that affect its atmospheric make up.[/quote]

That was my original point. Something the programme failed to do was go into the variables. They picked out the ones that helped back up their story and left out the other stuff.

[quote]if you really want to know more look up a paper by SC Chapman
'a theory of atmospheric ozone'[/quote]

Cheers, I may have a gander.