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What's worse as a punk ... joining a fan club or doing what you're told when the band ask you to close it down ? Was it punk in your book when Metallica sought to close Napster down ?

I disagree that a shared focal interest results in 'groupthink' .. it needn't.

You make football matches seem akin to the Nuremberg rally. Since when was 'factual basis' a condition of emotional commitment ?

'Yeah in 1977 that was likely LOL' - Have you heard of a Damned collector's item called 'Stretcher Case' ? I believe it was only available to fan club members !

One of the points of punk was about not being constrained or limited by other people's perceptions of you. If this guy wanted to join a fan club then it matters not a jot what you or I think !

I may be wrong Warren .. i'm aware of that. Are you aware that you may be wrong when you make definitive statements such as 'Punk was a nihilistic social movement'. Was it ? It's had a lot of positive impact for something you claim to be nihilistic.

You have a very mechanistic view of human behaviour. People go along to football matches and it 'makes' them do things. Presumably you're more highly evolved and walk a more enlightened path?

Do you want rigor or rigour ? Yes, 'Stretcher Case' was only available to fan club members. You thought it 'unlikely' and even had a little titter at my expense but you've learned something .. even if it's only how to spell rigour.

What's with your belief that punk was populist ? It was both populist and elitist .. it doesn't have to be one or the other. McClaren and Jamie Reid were influenced by French situationism ... that's populist ?

You'd have to ask him to elaborate why it was a 'crap club' instead of purporting to know how he defines 'crap' and why he was disappointed.

I don't know you and meatus going on about Mozzer,,,er Wazzer(confusing myself) The best punk song ever and the lyrics, well, ol' Shakespeare himself could'nt have done better. Who am I talking about you may ask?
Jilted John by.......Jilted John.
The definative story about love, hate, betrayal and teenage angst.
Radiohead eat your heart out.

Zevon .. I don't believe you.

How the fuck did this post get onto the subject of the smiths for fucks sake.

get back to the fucking subject!!