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Hillsborough was a terrible accident.
Poor policing, shit ground.

But I think a minority of Liverpool fans could have added to the problems.

I know that those who died were not to blame or were the other 100% of fans already in the ground but some fans did not care how they got into the ground and with poor policing, crap ground layout back in the 80's and mostly I think pens, I am just amazed it had not happened before (with any set of fans)

Press play on the following link, which shows what some fans will do to get into a ground. And yes it was a Liverpool match. Could some of these been outside Hillsborough.

Milk Tray Man wrote:

> Essex Lad wrote:
>
> > The families of the 96 want justice but what kind of justice?
> > The original inquest verdicts ? now overturned ? say that
> they
> > were killed unlawfully.
> >
> > Will new inquests return a different verdict?
>
>
> No, the original verdicts were accidental death. That's why the
> scousers demanded a new inquest because they want unlawful
> killing verdicts.

My apologies.

Do you think they will be happy with unlawfully killed verdicts and ?0 or will that open the floodgates for compensation?

Lots of interesting comments. I think, having read them, that the Liverpool fans were at the very least partially to blame, the other factors would have been Police incompetence and the fact they were so overwhelmed by the situation. Someone said above that it is unlikely the Liverpool fans 'were queueing like pensioners in a Post office' and I would have to agree. There would have been pushing to get in, there would likely have been some drunken fans and ticketless ones too. I agree with what's been said that this gets too much coverage compared to other disasters of the last 25-30 years. Also they will only accept a "we were totally innocent and the Police were to blame" outcome. If that is not the outcome the people who wrote the report will be vilified and they will hav to go away and write another one which praises the fans and blames the Police. Therefore the forthcoming report will not be an objective one.

David I have no problem with you disagreeing with me (that's what forums are for) but there's no need to 'shout' and get aggressive. Did I shout and get aggressive with you? Your rant was unnecessary, posting the link would have sufficed.

As for your link, TheGreatCritique turns out to be a blog by a Liverpool supporter who clearly has an obsession with Hillsborough that seems to border on the fanatical, so his musings therein are hardly unbiased, unemotional and objective.

Essex Lad: what do YOU think?

This from Wikipedia...

Effect on survivors

By the disaster's 10th anniversary in 1999, at least three people who survived were known to have committed suicide caused by emotional problems brought on by the disaster. Another survivor had spent eight years in psychiatric care. Numerous cases of alcoholism and drug abuse were also attributed to lingering effects from the disaster, and it contributed to the collapse of a number of marriages involving people who had witnessed the events.

I am afraid that a lie travels round the world whilst the truth is getting its boots on. The sad fact is that Hillsborough was caused by the mistakes of Superintendant Duckenfield. South Yorkshire Police knew that from the start, which is why the cover up went into motion. Blaming "drunken, ticketless" fans took the heat off the police. MPs and reporters were briefed to that effect, witness statements altered to reflect the new version of reality. That is really all there is to it, yet the meme of drunken ticketless fans is so strong that people still trot it out. Amazing, and sad in a way.

^^ I think Robches has just won the prize for the best post in this thread.

"but there's no need to 'shout' and get aggressive"

I neither shouted nor got aggressive. I have answered all your questions with copious links to official reports etc. and you have answered virtually none of mine. In the circumstances I have been extremely polite.

"As for your link, TheGreatCritique turns out to be a blog by a Liverpool supporter who clearly has an obsession with Hillsborough that seems to border on the fanatical, so his musings therein are hardly unbiased, unemotional and objective."

I have no idea whether the guy is a Liverpool supporter or not. Being a Liverpool supporter and understanding the truth are clearly not mutually exclusive. He does reference bad behaviour by Liverpool fans so he certainly is not a "see no evil, hear no evil" blogger. At least his views are based on documented evidence unlike your own which seem to be based on nothing in particular.

My frustration with individuals like yourself is that you appear to have no understanding whatsoever of the documentation that has come out of the various official enquiries and still peddle the same old myths about fans playing a part in the deaths.

To quote Martin Odoni

even though the Hillsborough Report itself does a pretty thorough job of dismissing them (the myths) in its own right, and even though the Report has had enormous media coverage, these myths are still being propagated by thousands of people, especially across the Internet. It is perfectly plain from reading what many of these myth-spreaders have to say that they have not even studied any real evidence connected with the Disaster, but wish to cling to their established views, either out of bigotry or sheer laziness. I for one have no wish to keep repeating myself when such people need correcting,

Exactly my view!!!

David Johnson wrote:

> I for one have no wish to
> keep repeating myself
>
> Exactly my view!!!


And yet you still do. funny that.

Probably because I stupidly think you might answer my questions or have some grasp of the topic.