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Please bear with me during the lengthy preamble???..

As part of my book project, I recently attended a support group for compulsive masturbators based on the twelve steps ?AA? programme.

In a freezing cold church hall, five men detailed their personal wank 9/11?s. The only thing they seemed to share in common was a belief that porn has destroyed their lives in some way or another. Some of them were in tears as they spoke. I?ll confess that I didn?t quite ?get it?, perhaps you can help me out?

Do you ever feel guilt, ashamed, feel like you are hiding a dirty secret?

Personally, and contrary to popular belief, I don?t think being a man is always chocolate. We commit suicide in vast numbers, are butchered in wars, die young, cry alone and suffer the indignity of our prostrate glands swelling to the size of a balloon animal as soon as we hit middle age. Despite our many vocal critics, some of us have tried our best to make amends for the behaviour of previous generations of men folk. After some pressure from the sisters, we finally discovered the G spot, the clitoris, cunnilingus and sexual sensitivity.

Sadly, despite these major compromises, we are still cast as the villain of the piece. Some critics would claim that given that it is always men in positions of power, we are fair game when it comes to taking a direct hit from the shrapnel which so frequently flies in the gender war.

If you have a dick, you act as a magnet for all that is wrong in the world, but despite this it?s still considered beyond the pale to vocalise that maybe the sisters aren?t ?all that? either. Despite my own experience, which indicates that if you show me a confident, intelligent women who claims pornography is inherently corrupt, I?ll show you a bitch that treats cock like kryptonite. Modern critics of pornography, be they feminists, right wing politicians or religious groups, have much more in common with the Victorians then they would be happy to admit.

Put simply, they share the urge to condemn. This peculiar outlook on male sexuality has not been challenged over the last 150 years, despite the fact that pre-historic man probably scrawled pictures of naked chicks on caves as a visual stimuli to having a wank in the primordial midst of time.

?New Men?, the sandal wearing gender traitors of the established patriarchy deserve the worst of our loathing. Ask any of your female friends and I?ll bet cash they would always choose an unreconstructed chauvinist, over a sensitive man in touch with his feminine side every time, even if the majority would be too scared to admit it. Men who accept the dodgy hand which the Y chromosome deals us, tend to be more fun to be around.

Critics of porn insist we live in complete denial of our gender. Using the established formula of guilt, a ruthlessly efficient approach that has been so effective in the world of religion. They say the members of the support group should feel ashamed because they gets the occasional urge to watch naked chicks get fucked on film.

They claim that the closet slut junkies I met are personally responsible for the sordid exploitation of the sisters every time they boot their computers. When we ?flog on? to the internet, our actions lead directly to poverty stricken single mothers taking part in a sleazy hotel gang bangs, in order to buy their children shoes for the new school term.

Rather then choosing to ignore their critics, the people I met at the group are consenting to go to war with their own sexuality. Purely in order to fit a distorted, narrow view of what makes men good or bad.

My feeling is this: the people at the support group tonight haven?t got a problem with pornography addiction, they have a problem with male guilt.

What do you think?

Cheers in Advance

I have some knowledge of the group concerned for similar reasons to Bernard. Although I found them quite pleasant people, and many did have sexual addictions which clearly they needed to address, i.e. they were either illegal or were ruining their lives by excessive spending on them, I did find some of the peoples' attitude on porn odd. Some seemed to have difficulties with extremely mild stuff, the type of things many would not even consider porn, such as cleaveage. I really have to say that in my mind if such mild stuff is causing you a problem then you really have a problem. .

Bruce Barnard wrote:
> As part of my book project, I recently attended a support group
> for compulsive masturbators based on the twelve steps ?AA?
> programme.
If it IS an addiction (which, like 'sex addiction', I'm extremely sceptical about- probably being as it is, more an aspect of victim culture and a simple lack of self-discipline: self-abuse instead, ha ha).....it's a pretty benign one compared to drug or alcohol addcitions, which destroy whole families.
>
> Do you ever feel guilt, ashamed, feel like you are hiding a dirty secret?
In my weaker moments, yes- but I blame society's morbid hypocrisy for that- it's basically a relatively safe outlet for my sexuality in circumstances where I choose not to establish a sexual relationship for the time being, for a variety of 'lifestyle' reasons- when circumstances change, then so will my sexual activity. I am neither socially inadequate nor terminally ugly- but my working conditions are presently such as to preclude mass encounters with the oppsite sex, and I absolutely loathe the noisy, slightly sad and desperate, knocking-shops that masquearde as most places of adult 'entertainment'. Secret? No: merely no one else's damn' business, although I'm fairly upfront about it, as I don't often feel the need to disguise my interests unless in a situation where they would obviously offend.
>
> it is always men in positions of power,
Really? Sexual power? I don't think so: after all these years of feminist 'equality', why does the male still almost always have to make the running, risking rejection or ridicule? Women select, and always have- only now are the subliminal factors affecting mate-selection begun to be elucidated (see 'bastards', for example, below- presumably such a guy will defend her from the rest of the ravening pack......so much for 1.5 million years' worth of biological and cultural Evolution- males are supposed to change, while women are merely avatars of a malodorous, troglodytic demi-ape).

> Put simply, they share the urge to condemn.
Yes, Puritanism, and insecurity. Oh, and ignorance, which of course breeds fear.
> ?New Men?, .......Men who accept the dodgy hand which the Y chromosome > deals us, tend to be more fun to be around.
Women tend to go for 'bastards'- which says a lot about their biology, and not much about their common-sense
> ..... poverty stricken single mothers taking part in a sleazy hotel gang
> bangs, in order to buy their children shoes for the new school term.
More like pay their kids' Eton school-fees, nowadays, and pass a boring afternoon while hubby's at the golf-course with the Chairman. Might have been true once- but women can often find better-paid employment elsewhere: I get the impression that most girls are in the business because they're happy to be there- and those who aren't leave pretty quickly- after all, no-one is forcing them to stay. For example, prostitution pays better, condoms are almost mandatory, and the girls can pick and choose who they work with.
>
> the people I met at the group are consenting to go to war with their
> own sexuality.
I suspect that these guys' problems run a lot deeper than their wank-
habits: there's a distinct whiff of absent self-esteem......
> My feeling is this: the people at the support group tonight
> haven?t got a problem with pornography addiction, they have a
> problem with male guilt.
Amongst other things.

Bruce Barnard wrote:

> Please bear with me during the lengthy preamble???..
>
> As part of my book project, I recently attended a support group
> for compulsive masturbators based on the twelve steps ?AA?
> programme.
>
> In a freezing cold church hall, five men detailed their
> personal wank 9/11?s. The only thing they seemed to share in
> common was a belief that porn has destroyed their lives in some
> way or another. Some of them were in tears as they spoke. I?ll
> confess that I didn?t quite ?get it?, perhaps you can help me
> out?
>
> Do you ever feel guilt, ashamed, feel like you are hiding a
> dirty secret?

Yeah but only when I come to quickly or stain my curtains,ceiling or assorted clothing on the floor

The keyboards my dirty little secret...I have 2....sticky keys would tend to give it away

Seriously you've got to keep it secret because most people(generally speaking are ill informed and embarrased about sex in any form
>
> Personally, and contrary to popular belief, I don?t think being
> a man is always chocolate. We commit suicide in vast numbers,
> are butchered in wars, die young, cry alone and suffer the
> indignity of our prostrate glands swelling to the size of a
> balloon animal as soon as we hit middle age. Despite our many
> vocal critics, some of us have tried our best to make amends
> for the behaviour of previous generations of men folk. After
> some pressure from the sisters, we finally discovered the G
> spot, the clitoris, cunnilingus and sexual sensitivity.
>
> Sadly, despite these major compromises, we are still cast as
> the villain of the piece. Some critics would claim that given
> that it is always men in positions of power, we are fair game
> when it comes to taking a direct hit from the shrapnel which so
> frequently flies in the gender war.
>
> If you have a dick, you act as a magnet for all that is wrong
> in the world, but despite this it?s still considered beyond the
> pale to vocalise that maybe the sisters aren?t ?all that?
> either. Despite my own experience, which indicates that if you
> show me a confident, intelligent women who claims pornography
> is inherently corrupt, I?ll show you a bitch that treats cock
> like kryptonite. Modern critics of pornography, be they
> feminists, right wing politicians or religious groups, have
> much more in common with the Victorians then they would be
> happy to admit.
>
> Put simply, they share the urge to condemn. This peculiar
> outlook on male sexuality has not been challenged over the last
> 150 years, despite the fact that pre-historic man probably
> scrawled pictures of naked chicks on caves as a visual stimuli
> to having a wank in the primordial midst of time.

That is their way
Its the hypocrisy that i can't swallow

>
> ?New Men?, the sandal wearing gender traitors of the
> established patriarchy deserve the worst of our loathing. Ask
> any of your female friends and I?ll bet cash they would always
> choose an unreconstructed chauvinist, over a sensitive man in
> touch with his feminine side every time, even if the majority
> would be too scared to admit it. Men who accept the dodgy hand
> which the Y chromosome deals us, tend to be more fun to be
> around.
>
> Critics of porn insist we live in complete denial of our
> gender. Using the established formula of guilt, a ruthlessly
> efficient approach that has been so effective in the world of
> religion. They say the members of the support group should feel
> ashamed because they gets the occasional urge to watch naked
> chicks get fucked on film.
>
Maybe a few of these Morally Righteous types should take a biology lesson or two.

They seem incapabe of seeing how Porn & Prostitution are actually good things in society.

Instead they parade these feeble minded idiots that have repented
as justification for their Inquisition

Nobody more dangerous in the World than those that have God on their side

> They claim that the closet slut junkies I met are personally
> responsible for the sordid exploitation of the sisters every
> time they boot their computers. When we ?flog on? to the
> internet, our actions lead directly to poverty stricken single
> mothers taking part in a sleazy hotel gang bangs, in order to
> buy their children shoes for the new school term.
>

> Rather then choosing to ignore their critics, the people I met
> at the group are consenting to go to war with their own
> sexuality. Purely in order to fit a distorted, narrow view of
> what makes men good or bad.

They obviously needed help but this shouldn't then label all who watch porn as being of the same cloth but I bet those morally righteous think that we all are
>
> My feeling is this: the people at the support group tonight
> haven?t got a problem with pornography addiction, they have a
> problem with male guilt.
>
Maybe not male Guilt but definitely a lack of knowing where they fit into society.the roles of Men & Women have been blurred over the last 20 years

Man once used to be the breadwinner but thats not always the case thesedays

Women are doing the chasing and the reckless behaviour(drinking/drugs)
as men once did

The sting in the tail is they're appears to be a group of women..Mainly Assertive/Aggressive Career Women 30-45 that are getting left on the shelf
if you believe the statistics





> What do you think?
>
> Cheers in Advance
>
>

?In a freezing cold church hall, five men detailed their personal wank 9/11?s. The only thing they seemed to share in common was a belief that porn has destroyed their lives in some way or another. Some of them were in tears as they spoke. I?ll confess that I didn?t quite ?get it?, perhaps you can help me out??

It?s quite simple Bruce; the afor mentioned chaps are sad boys.


?Some critics would claim that given that it is always men in positions of power, we are fair game?

?Yes, I?ve heard that. But I say bollocks to ?em!


?it?s still considered beyond the pale to vocalise that maybe the sisters aren?t ?all that? either.?

Not where I come from.


??New Men?, the sandal wearing gender traitors of the established patriarchy deserve the worst of our loathing.?

Too right dude. If one of those poncy fuckers had been seconded to our construction site gang in the old days we would have smarted him up in no time, I can tell ya.


?Critics of porn insist we live in complete denial of our gender. Using the established formula of guilt, a ruthlessly efficient approach that has been so effective in the world of religion.?

Denial of our gender? Not me, and what guilt? I am so not guilty.


?our actions lead directly to poverty stricken single mothers taking part in a sleazy hotel gang bangs, in order to buy their children shoes for the new school term.?

Cobblers! It?s the afor mentioned single mother?s lack of intellectual capacity that has led to them being skint and lumbered with a nipper.


?Rather then choosing to ignore their critics, the people I met at the group are consenting to go to war with their own sexuality.?

How frightfully middle class of them.


?My feeling is this: the people at the support group tonight haven?t got a problem with pornography addiction, they have a problem with male guilt.

What do you think??


Yeah, they've definitely have a problem. One that can only be addressed by someone grabbing them roughly by the lapels, administering a couple of vigorous slaps round the chops and declaring ?For Christ sake man, get a grip of yourself and don?t be such a poncy tart!


Officer Dibble

The group I was involved with in London, albeit some years ago, although they had members who had difficulties with what they described as porn, were not the ban it at all costs brigade, which you find in the extreme feminist movement and certain religious organisations. They appreciated it was their problem and not society's as a whole.
Particularly in the UK, which certainly has more than its fair share of control freaks, the general public have a poor knowledge of the porn industry. This is mainly due to the activities of our irresponsible tabloid press. Many people believe that most women in the industry are being exploited, and although clearly some are, it is equally obvious that most of the women really enjoy the work. You only have to read the entries by porn actresses in these forums to realise that. Quite apart from porn, it is interesting how groups who have harmless interests are often stigmatised. Train spotters are a case in point. Nothing would cause me to stand on a freezing cold station taking train numbers, but are they doing any harm? The only harm I can see they do, is to cause the general public, who have no knowledge of the subject, to tar people who are interested in railways from an engineering view point, with the same brush.
The real question is, where does a legitimate interest end and an addiction begin? In other words, why do many people believe it is acceptable to watch four hours of Coronation Street & Eastenders a week, and yet if you watch similar amounts of Marino & Ben Dover you are addicted to it.
An addiction is when you cease to function normally because of the amount of time and money you spend on a particular interest. In a sexual connection I have met a few people who cannot live a normal life because they have virtually bankrupted themselves using the services of prostitutes. In one case four visits a day! I have never come across anyone who gets themselves into this state with porn.

I suggest that such people are not "porn addicts" they are simply 'horny.' They have a higher than average sex drive. All this porn addiction palaver is something dreamt up by middle class feminist sorts so they can sit round discussing it in a dour, earnest, intellectual manner, thereby feeling they are important and giving focus to their miserable unfulfilled lives. In short, it?s pretentious tosh.

Officer Dibble

I tend to think Dibble is bang on the money on this one, all the members of the group were best described as afflulent, except for one office clerk who got busted downloading muck at his work PC and was forced to attend as part of his punishment.

The fact that the men taking part tend to have been driven to treat their 'deviant' urges by the 'sisters' is amply demonstrated by the following sordid saga:

"John (name changed) was once a happily married man. Two daughters, mortgage, steady job, six monthly dental check ups; a white bread suburban success story. He was the kind of man you would never guess was hiding a dark sexual secret, namely a hidden obsession with owning pictures of naked chicks getting dirty, that would eventually lead to a very public downfall.

John had been a keen consumer of sex magazines since his youth. Stock piling a healthy collection of Knaves and Razzles under his mattress throughout his teenage years. It was normal for young men to look at pornography he told himself, he knew for a fact that his friends were doing it, because they?d often trade magazines when they grew bored of seeing the same faces. Happily masturbating up to four times a day during college, he didn?t show much interest in the opposite sex, despite being a reasonable looking guy with a good sense of humour.

The reason for this was simple, the women available on his course just did not match up to the lovely ladies spreading their legs in his extensive collection of jazz mags and videos. A library that was increasing in size dramatically, his credit card bill often showing purchases of pornography in the triple figures every weekend.

Soon he found himself unable to engage in idle chit chat with the opposite sex, without being struck by a strong urge to nip to the toilets to bang one off half way through the conversation. He started to think that he might be developing a problem, but was too ashamed to discuss it with anyone. The walk to college became a living hell, his mind in turmoil as he imagined all the women he passed in the street with their kit off. No female was immune to his sex ray vision: middle aged secretaries, teenage mums pushing prams, lollipop ladies, skinny chicks, fat birds; all of them were fair game for his lecherous gaze. Any shape, size, age or ethnic origin, he?d still fantasise about seeing them with their blouses open.

Undertaking an extended period of porn cold turkey during his late twenties, he managed to keep a lid on his deviant urges. Especially after falling in love with a girl he met at work, who he later asked to marry him. She agreed and after the honeymoon, they settled into a pleasant, if slightly dull life in a new build house complete with en suite bathroom and conservatory.

Just when life was peachy, John?s demons came back to haunt him. His wife had recently given birth to a second child. The labour had been traumatic and he was in the midst of an eighteen month long sex drought. Browsing through a newsagent one day, he found himself grabbing a handful of top shelf smut, throwing the money at the cashier and driving home at speed to review his booty. The cycle had begun again, the slow trickle of porn purchases quickly became a flood. Over the next year he hid hundreds of magazines and videos in his garage, accumulating so much material he genuinely thought his only option was to rent storage facilities to keep them hidden from his family.

Making excuses about servicing his car when he wanted to get his freak on, he?d spend hours digging through his stash, dick in one hand, a copy of ?Juggs? in the other, constantly listening out for the sound of the garage door opening. This was an aspect of his life he had never discussed with his partner, preferring to live out his fantasies in private, careful to ensure that no member of the family would stumble across his secret shame.
John?s wank 9/11 came when he was attending a week long conference with some work colleagues. He received a tearful phone call from his wife, unable to get through, she had left a message demanding he return home immediately. Fearing that the children were ill he set off for home straight away.

Rather then finding whooping cough when he arrived back, he faced his distraught wife, who was standing next to a large pile of pornography which had been dumped on the living room floor. Inconsolable and incoherent, she had apparently stumbled across his stash when she was looking for a screwdriver in the garage. She?d spent the last few hours ploughing through the spread labia photosets in tearful hysterics. How could he do it? What sort of man had she married? This was worse then adultery, a dirty minded perversion that had no place in their lives.

Next to the stash of muck was a packed suitcase. She demanded John move out that very night. She wasn?t willing to discuss the issue or hear his excuses. She wanted an end to the relationship, because after all what is the point of a marriage if there is no trust?

He left, and despite pleading for forgiveness she could never erase the sexually explicit images she?d witnessed that day. She kept saying it wasn?t the magazines themselves, ?it was the sense of betrayal that was the problem?. She felt she could never trust John again, he?d managed to keep this a secret so what other skeletons were lurking in the closet. They tried marriage counselling, but John?s taste for pornography was the stumbling block to reconciliation at every session. Soon after they divorced, his wives honesty in communicating the reason to their mutual friends and families, meant he quickly became a porn pariah, shunned because of his love for the sexy ladies.

As John finishes his speech there is a mutual sigh of recognition among the group, all of them nodding their heads in empathy at this shamefull saga of broken trust, damaged lives, traumatic divorce and spunky knockers".

All of which begs the question:

Ig his wife was likely to be so repulsed by his stash of filth, why didn't he dump her years ago to hook up with someone more slutty?

Bruce,
Your append opened up a can of worms for me, although I must say some of the text in your two appends does not show much sympathy for the people you are talking about.

Could you tell me/us about your book project so we know you are serious about this subject.

I am one of those people who have 'porn additction'. I am 54 years old and have been chasing pictures of naked ladies and porn even since I was about 14.

It started when I was 14 and saw a nudist beach in St Tropez on a family holiday. This got me interested in naked ladies, and I have never stopped.

I used to work in Central London when I was 17 onwards, and would always drift to Soho, even though I kept trying to stop myself.

I have travelled the world on business (New York, San Francisco, Denmark, Paris, Hamburg, Amsterdam) and in every country or city I would hunt out the red light districts.

I also feel great guilt about it and never come to term with it. I have to say it has affected my whole life, and I have made many decisions based on my 'love' of pornography.

My first marriage broke up because I did not find my first wife 'sexy' enough and lost interest in her sexually. She turned to drink and it ended in a shambles.

My second marriage was to a wonderful lady, but after I had been going out with her for a few months I found she had some shady things in her past, including making a pornographic film.

I took ages to decide whether I should marry her or not. I did, but at times I do regret it.

I have considered suicide, and in fact a few months ago wrote my life story, warts and all, so people would know what I had been through.

People should not underestimate the negative effects pornography addiction has on you.

Guilbert

When faced with the question 'what's all this porn, then? Aren't I woman enough for you'? the answer is 'No: look, I'm a male, it's our biology, it's what we do, and we like to cast our net wide, even if only to look, not touch. And would you rather I started an affair with your sister'?