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"It lasted only a couple of minutes and everyone had dispersed by the time police arrived."

So, a group of men arrange to have a bit of a scuffle, it lasts no more than a few minutes, nobody's badly hurt - if at all - and yet the courts hand out incredibly harsh sentences. And all for violence that's no worse than happens outside pubs and nightclubs every weekend around the country.

Why does any trouble at a football match automatically get magnified and sensationalised by both the justice system and the media?




FROM THE BBC WEBSITE:

Seventeen football hooligans have been jailed for having arranged to meet up for a fight at a London rail station.
All were issued banning orders and jailed for a total of 38 years for plotting to commit violent disorder.

The charges relate to a fight in April 2002 at London's Maze Hill Station between Charlton and Southampton fans, which left three men in hospital.

British Transport Police believed the men would have caused trouble at Euro 2004 if they had not been banned.

At Kingston Crown Court, Surrey, on Friday, Judge Fergus Mitchell jailed Steven David Carpenter, 39, of Eltham, for four years and 37-year-old Dave Walker of Stafford, a history teacher said to have an "exemplary record", for two years and three months.

Andrew McConville, 35, of Abbey Wood, William Joseph Greenall, 32, of Plumstead, Woolwich, Neil John Shaw, 39, of Erith, Christopher David Bowles, 22, of Southampton and Stephen Trevor Openshaw, 30, of Leigh, Lancashire, were all jailed for two years.

Walker, a married father, was considered an "outstanding teacher" and is said to have received glowing tributes from pupils and staff at the Birmingham boys' school where he teaches.

Another ten men had already been given jail terms and both groups have received six-year banning orders.

Police discovered, after searching houses and seizing computers and mobile phones, that the fight between the two groups had been deliberately planned.

"Our experience of football hooliganism over the past two years is that it has become more organised and the violence more intense," Superintendent Colum Price said.


Maze Hill station CCTV captured the brief but violent fight

"We have devoted increasing resources to policing football fans and have a good record of pre-empting disorder through good intelligence and the timely deployment of officers to escort trains and cover stations.

"But events such as those at Maze Hill, deliberately organised to avoid police detection, do occur and are of growing concern to rail users and train companies."

The brief but violent fight happened on the platform of the south-east London station when about 15 Southampton fans arrived and clashed with about 20 Charlton fans.

It lasted only a couple of minutes and everyone had dispersed by the time police arrived.

Statements from witnesses and examination of CCTV and photographic evidence led to the identification of the suspects.

Initially 20 people were arrested on suspicion of football-related violent disorder in October 2002, during dawn raids at 22 addresses in Hampshire and London.

Other arrests followed as more than 150 officers from British Transport Police, Hampshire and the Metropolitan Police took part in the operation.

Fifteen men were charged with conspiracy to commit violent disorder.

As the investigation progressed several other people were implicated in the conspiracy and four more were arrested and charged on 3 July 2003.

These included Dave Walker, known as "Three Lions," and Stephen Openshaw.

Walker contacted Spencer English by email on several occasions before the fight at Maze Hill, to firm up arrangements for the planned confrontation.

I have no problem with these idiots working off their excess testosterone upon each other- in fact, if a couple get killed, that's two fewer idiots on the streets.
But that's the point: THE STREETS. Had they chosen to behave like utter pricks in private, fine. But should they choose to inflict their unpleasant psychological problems on the rest of us, then lock them up and throw away the key. Better still, euthanatise them, and plough them back under for fertiliser, so they'll finally be of some use.
Or send them to Iraq. Maybe coming up against some REAL violence and suffering will cure their strange attitudes.

I agree that these men are more than old enough to know better and deserve to be punished.

But why is it that scuffles between football fans - which are usually nothing more than a lot of posturing and brave talk rather than actual fighting - get so severly punished?

Mind you, you can bet your life that at least some of the 17 convicted will have been wearing Burberry baseball caps - for that crime alone they deserved to get sent down.

Chelsea, despite their glamour and success have a bunch of idiots who tarnish the clubs good name, 'The Chelsea Headhunters' who have no real love for the game, just the mindless violence that goes with it. Expect rucks galore on saturday against those other mindless thugs, Leeds Utd fans

Im sure Magoo will testify to this excellent film comissioned by the BBC. Better than ID which followed fictious Shadwell Town (Millwall)

I'm not aware that a 'double standard' applies, as you seem to be suggesting, between offenders wearing team scarves and, say, brokers breaking glasses over each others' heads outside a Fleet Street boozer.
There might be a point about the former arranging to meet, which possibly makes it conspiracy.
Good point about the baseball-caps, though.

I have three names on my JJ's Big List of Guesses Who Supplied Magoo with His Copy of The Firm.
And, strangely, they all seem to be the same.

Well said Magoo.
I have a suggestion as to how to occupy the thugs.
When they are arrested they should remain in custody until the next day. The warring factions should then be made to enter "The arena" ie: the stadium/venue where they were nicked, they could then fight each each other to a standstill. Supervised of course, with weapons of choice provided by the Police. At full time the casualties could be dealt with as suggested in JJ' thread. This would;
a. Save the NHS ??????'s treating them.
b. Provide non match day entertainment for the masses.
c. Create a cheap earner for the FA via gate money from spectators.
d. Remove the mindless thugs from circulation without court intervention.

This might be a bit non PC, in fact I've been called a Barbarian on the forum before. But didn't one of the worlds much vaunted civilised democracies do this for many years to some of its populus?