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Just to put the cat amongst the pidgeons.

Long append but please read all of it before replying.

A lot of people on this forum are very quick to shout
'racist' at the drop of a hat, but let me tell you my
story, so you can see how these feelings can evolve.

My early heroes included Cassius Clay and Jimi Hendrix
(I nearly cried when he died). I now love jazz and my
heroes amongst others are Miles Davis, Ella Fitzgerald
and Duke Ellington (who was a genius) - they are all
black.

I think Henry is the best footballer in the UK at the
moment, and I will happily go to a Chinese or 'Indian'
restaurant to eat. Most Asians who work in 'Indian'
restaurants are really nice people.

I have worked with Asians and I get on with almost all
of them.

I am in my early 50s (born 1949 in London) and for the
first 30 years of my life I lived in London and was not
in the least concerned about immigration.

But 30 years ago my company moved from London to
Birmingham (which I was not that pleased about) but
I bought a house in North East Birmingham where there
were almost no immigrants, so I still had no problems
about immgration and other ethnic groups.

Then about 25 years ago my wife and I split up, and I
had to move to a poorer area of Birmingham. There
were of course many immigrants in these areas, and I
began to find my attitude changing.

I began to notice that some of the areas near me (Small
Heath and Sparkhill for those that know the city) were
absolute shit holes, and these places were about 90%
Asian.

Driving down Sparkhill high street was like driving
down a road in a third world country, and I realised
these people were dragging our country down to their
level.

I met a new partner whose mother lived in Sparkhill.
Her road was almost 100% Asian. My new partner said
that when she was young she would look out of her
back bedroom window and all the gardens had lovely
lawns, greenhouses, nice fences, flowers and so on.

When she looks out now their are extensions made from
brieze blocks, fences of corrugated metal, piles of
rubbish in the back garden, and rats everywhere.

All the greenhouses have gone, the lawns have gone,
the flowers have gone, and she could cry.

Most of the Asians in the street are unwilling to
spend any money on their houses so they just fall to
pieces.

The council often do schemes to renovate whole areas
(streets at a time) to improve the city housing stock
(Note these are privtae houses).

The owners get new roofs, doors, windows, front walls,
kitchens, bathrooms, and only pay about 10% of the
cost. Because the Asian areas are the worst (because
they do not work on their houses) then almost all the
areas that have been improved are Asian.

A friend of mine who works for the council told me that
many Asians 'fiddle' housing benefit by buying a cheap
house, and then 'swapping' with another Asian and
renting each others house and claiming housing benefit.

Recently Birmingham council published the levels of
unemployment of each of the Asian ethnic groups, and
some of them were as high as 20%. So much for immigrants
doing the jobs no one else wants to do.

Ther are now many schools in Birmingham that are 100%
Asian (and I am not talking Muslim schools here).

A friend of mine who does a lot for the church often
visits families new to the city to welcome them. We
often argue about immigration (he is generally pro).

A while ago he visited an Asian family and he came back
rather shocked. He told me this familes attitude was
"Live in the black economy and claim all you can".

Now I know many Uk based people think like that, SO WHY
DO WE NEED TO IMPORT MORE.

Over time I managed to move house so I now live in the
South East of Birmingham, away from these areas, but
if I want to get into Birmingham by car for some reason
I have to take all sorts of routes to avoid these areas
as I find them so upsetting.

In the last 10 years or so there has been an increase
in immgrants in Birmingham, and I have heard that the
ethnic population of Birmingham is now almost 50%.

Of course we have had a rise in gun crime in Birmingham,
almost all of it black on black crime, and I get sick
of hearing the local news, or reading the local paper,
where yet another person has been shot, and the Black
crime section of the police have been involved.

The area of South East Birmingham where I now live has
very few ethnic groups, but every week in our local
paper there are robberies reported where it says 'three
black men' or 'two Asian men'. There are of course many
crimes NOT commited by members of the ethnic groups, but
the number who ARE is disproportionate the number of
ethnics in the area.

We also have many Asylum seekers in Birmingham, and there
is one 3 star hotel in Birmingham (on Broad steet) where
Asylum seekers are housed while their cases are being
judged. If you walk past the hotel you can see them coming
out (most seem to be single men, Turkish or similar).

On a Sunday they all hang around Victoria Square (if you
know the city) with their leather coats and mobile phones.
Seem to be very well dressed if you ask me.

Yesterday in my local Safeway I saw a poor old lady who was
looking through the reduced food, and bought one loaf of
bread and two packets of biscuits. At the till it came to
1 pound 87 pence (I was right behind her).

I got really angry that an old lady who I assume had lived
here all her life was reduced to buying reduced bread in
Safeway while we house Asylum seekers in a 3 star hotel.

Someone said on this forum the bombings were 'not about
immigration' but they were EVERYTHING about imigration.

They may well have happened without the immigration, but
the immigration made it easier. More people to spread hate,
mosques to hide in and plot, safe houses to hide in, whole
areas like in Birmingham to lose yourself.

Of course we have had Hamza (hook) preaching hate on the
streets of England while we stood by and watched. Some of
the people who sat and listened to him may well have planted
the bombs in London.

Of course the soft control of our borders made it easier for
anyone to get here and even the home office have recently
addmiited there are probably up to 500,000 illegal
immigrants !.



That is 500,000 getting health service treatment, dental
treatment and all sorts of other 'benefits' without paying
a penny in income tax (paid for by the tax you pay).

I think the UK has had a great asylum policy, many people from
Poland and other European countries came here after the war,
but do we have Polish ghettos, do we have Poles trying to blow
us up, do we have Poles trying to changes our way of life.

So I have to say that after over 30 years of not caring I
am now VERY anti-immigration, VERY anti (so called) Asylum
seekers, and consider as a country we have had our tolerance
abused.

For anyone who thinks immigration is great go visit Small
Heath or Sparkhill. It is like visiting a third world country,
I can guarantee your attitude will change very quickly.

Thats an intresting observation Guilbert. I know Brum fairly well and have seen its decline over 20 odd years. The no-go areas are Aston and Handsworth, but I find Sparkbrook an OK place for a good Balti after the dog racing at Hall Green, and have never encountered any hassle being a white man in this area
Its not just the Asian community you can point the finger at, my mate lived in Erdington and that was a dump even then (1983) with council tenents and faceless council estates with barking dogs and mattress's discarded in gardens having absolutely NO regard for anyone but themselves.
My step dads parents lived in an affluent part of Birmingham called Moseley which I remembered as very nice, almost like Barnes in SW London with the grand terrace houses and immaculate parks, but its a region frequented by 'ladies of the night' these days and the houses described are now apartments let to DSS dossers who couldn't give 2 fucks about tradition or past history of this once pretty suburb
If you think B'ham has deterioted, try nearby Coventry.............now THAT is a shit hole. The council there in its wisdom decided to put Croat and Serb asylum seekers on the same floor of a hostel......all Hell broke loose!!! and I know what you mean about asylum seekers wearing trendy threads with up-to-date mobiles and iPods........I work fucking hard, and I don't have an iPod..........and thats where resentment creeps in..........and its dangerous to have those thoughts

Whilst your story is an intresting read, its let down slightly with your 'heroes' and citing them and their colour. It really makes no difference their colour, just their talent.
For what its worth, I found Hendrix vastly overated and more often than not put in shit performances against classic shows due to his dependance on substances. I have heard quite a lot of his bootlegs, and they are very patchy in parts and his solos do drone after a while. I have always believed he went far initially because he was 'a first of his type' and died so young propelled him to icon status

Guilbert wrote:

>
> I began to notice that some of the areas near me (Small
> Heath and Sparkhill for those that know the city) were
> absolute shit holes, and these places were about 90%
> Asian.
>

It is not immigrants (wherever they are from) who 'drag down' inner city areas. They settle in inner city areas which are already 'dragged down' because those are the only places they can afford to live when they first arrive. It is also a common 'natural' process for some parts of cities - usually inner cities - to decline while others - sometimes inner city - improve, sometimes by gentrification. To suggest that immigrants are responsible for beginning the deprivation and decline of Small Heath and Sparkhill is just plain wrong.

>The council often do schemes to renovate whole areas
> (streets at a time) to improve the city housing stock
> (Note these are privtae houses).

Council renovation of private houses is commonplace in poor areas all over the country, e.g. coal mining areas with hardly any immigrants. This is usually funded ultimately by EU money.

It sounds very much to me as if you noticed the decline of certain areas and your prejudices determined where you placed the blame for the decline. Try reading up on some urban geography and try to understand the processes going on in cities, not just immigration. Things are a lot more complex than you make them out to be.

Seems to me alec that substute "chav" for "immigrant" and we get someone else's diatribe.

Mart

I lived in Brum for many years and know the areas well, yes they are not the best and yes they are mostly asian.....so
this is not to do with immigration but a changing Britain, immigrants were encouraged to come over and do the shitty labour jobs in factories etc and dumped in shitty areas. When those industries closed the areas got worse.

Flip this to another area of the country, my job now takes me to some of the old mining areas (Worksop, Mansfield etc)
These were pretty good areas many years ago, then all the mines were shut, the heroin dealers moved in and the places turned to rat shit......guess what, they're 99% white areas.

if you want your argument to be taken seriously you need to separate the 'race' issue from the social problems we do have in this country

Just because a property is in disrepair doesn't mean the poeple inside are

Its safe to say they have different priorities when it comes to spending their income

Most immigrants(especially the first generation) that I'm aware of usually place their childrens education first & the extended family ahead of everything else

We've seen it in OZ with th italians,greeks & vietnamese

All the resources are put back into rearing the next generation
Thats their way,like it or lump it

When they do eventually become wealthy,as many are your not likely to see a cottage garden,manicured lawn & white picket fence but concrete,statues fruit & veg patch.

Waste not want not seems to some it up for me

cheers
B....OZ

I read that with interest. I'm a londerner born and bred, but I lived in Birmingham for four years, when I took a degree following my discharge from the forces. I found Brum just like you say VERY segregated. Black areas white areas. I had the pleasure of visting Sparks hill too and Handsworth. In the company of Asain freinds from London visting relatives. It was generally poorer than London, but this isn't a case of them making it a 'shit hole' like their country (have you been to India by the way?) it's a case of them facing the same problems all economic migrants face they start at bottom rung of ladder and find it hard to work there way up. That said theres loads of asain doctors, lawyers even politicians, and round my way they live in fucking lovely houses, and are obsessed with building. So I just don't think your right there.

As for claiming dole etc, well I'd be interested to see whether the amount of asains claiming dole is any significantly higher than whites. I doubt it. Or that crime is any higher. I think if there is any line to be drawn it's linked between poverty and crime, not race and crime. It just happens blacks and asains are living disproportinately in poverty, because of their status as new immigrants and a climate which often discriminates, if not overtly, CERTAINLY covertly, against them.

Oh as for Poles, I think I'm also qualified there as I have married a grandaughter of Polish immigrants in WWII. I don't think it's really a fair comparison, they are white, European, Christian or Jewish in most cases, and not a million miles away from us. They found it easier to fit in obviously, and it's harder to discriminate against people who look more or less like you and you cant pick out of a crowd in any case. Plus the women are stunningly beautiful, which I'm sure helped. Not that I'm biased

Guilbert also fair enough your anti immigration and presumably anti multicultarlist too. Which you have as much right as anyone to be. But what is your solution? There's 3-5 million people here who are either immigrants or recent immigrants (well last 60 years). Would you allow them to stay? If not how on Earth do you plane to get rid of them. If yes then surely we're gonna have to learn to get along somehow or live in a perpetual state of conflict till Kingdom come?