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This intrigues me. Just purchased Anal Service 4 DVD on R18 (ie Service Animals 4 minus the word "animal" that the BBFC hate, plus minus a few minutes of 'aggressive fellatio'). Just wondered what was viewed as aggressive, unconsenting fellatio in BBFC terms. They reference suffocation, but AS4 (or at least the only scene I've watched or care about - the Hannah Harper opener) still features some fairly oppresive, gagging, seemingly forced oral. I presume what the BBFC cut out from films in general is the kind of stuff where a bloke puts his fingers over the woman's nose during a BJ, forcing her to stop breathing, choke and retch. If that is the case, then God bless the BBFC. I find nothing as unsexy as seeing a woman in obvious distress. I'm interested to hear from any Brit girls who have filmed that kind of choke-fucking scene (eg American stuff like a lot of Evil Angel and Extreme Associates films). Is it enjoyable, it is sexy, is it agreed beforehand, is it highly paid, it is as unpleasant as it looks? Also, I'd like to know if any UK producer/directors have filmed or are interested in filming such a sequence. Personally, I really can't see the point. It is unpleasant to watch, it is not arousing, it is abusive, mysognistic and it makes my skin crawl. However (given that it is the main thing the BBFC cut out of UK releases) I would be interested to hear how other punters, performers and directors feel about it. Ta.

Does absolutely nothing for me..and in fact the whole idea of people getting aroused by seeing a girl asphyxiated kind of sends a shiver down my spine, its geting into the whole 'Fred west' territory if you ask me..weird shit for weird people..defiently not the sort of people u take home of a weekend to meet your mother!

Big grey area this one. I'm with Golostruda on this one. To rationalise such acts is to accept that some directors push the envelope on what is acceptable in porn. This is the price of competition: People wanting to do something different, intensify their product, give it that dark edge. These people are catering to the (lack of a better word) sickness they feel (some) punters get turned on by. Believe it or not, some of these same said culprits such as Max Hardcore and Rocco Siffredi have been described by certain girls who contribute to this forum as nice guys. Honest! Rebekah mentioned this about Max a while back. All this gagging stuff is consensual and no- I don't think they get more money for it. The fact you are commenting on it illustrates what the producer set out to do in the first place- Shock you, make you squeamish, send shivers down your spine whatever...But like watching a car crash before it happens, you can't help but watch it. But if you are starting to get aroused by it, you are on a long or short, twisted road to the dark side of your persona...May the lord have mercy on your soul. Stick to the usual stuff. The most bizarre thing is- some women are actually into this asphyxiation thing.

Tricky one. The whole arena of 'consesual sex' is quite complicated. A lot of performers get more money the more extreme the material. A lot of the producers and agents wish the girls to do more extreme stuff - the producers for their reputation in the industry, the agents for profit and reputation amongst producers. So it's not as simple as saying yes or no. However hard I try to convince myself that it's just as offensive to these women performers to assume they are not aware of that, and are unable to make an informed rational decision of their own, some of the material I have been unfortunate enough to watch makes me think that any reasonably well adjusted person would never agree to do it. The look of distress on some faces tells the real story.

There's a thin line between going along with the "everyone is free to do what they want so long as they harm no one else" and the "consent issue" and the drugs issue, which even today is tangled up in some sections of the porn industry.

Of course a big step forward would be to try and break the taboo nature of sex, especially in a country like the UK. If attitudes towards sex and pornography (as a consenting adult exploration and celebration of sex) can be more open and inclusive, then greater regulations can be brought in and the 'underground sick' element of porn would shrink drastically. Until that happens, it's a question of individual taste. And some of us campaign for change too, but that's optional.

I think you're kinda missing the point. The whole attraction about porn revolves around the fact it is - in some way - transgressive. Vanilla porn is just plain boring. Most people have some weird shit in their head that excites them, and they get off seeing it in some way portrayed in a movie. You wouldn't actually want to shoot someone, would you, (well, carefully selected target maybe!) but it can be exciting in a Bond movie or whatever. Porn is fantasy and an alternative to the boring business of wooing and seducing a live woman. Child molesters are - by all statistical evidence - quite rare, however, from the proliferation of kidddie porn in the newsgroups, the fascination is widespread. Lots of people (not all of them German!) enjoy shit movies. It takes all sorts....and all sorts of porn to get everyone off. Me, I like lesbian stuff, but then I'm just weird.

Max and Rocco seem like gentlemen compared to some of the stuff coming out of the USA. Girls being throat fucked until they vomit then being made to eat their puke. Very unpleasant I think. Makes Max H look like a romantic. If the US gonzo industry carries on trying to get more and more extreme it will implode on itself IMHO. Meanwhile the likes of Vivid will continue to coast happily along with their glossy, bubble gum, vanilla, cable freindly porn.

Also I have noticed an increase in the number of US flicks based on rape scenarios. Are the yanks trying to outdo the Germans on the scale of perversity? Grotty badly produced porn which plays into the hands of the feminists and anti porn crowd. Some of it is OK though I suppose. Or is it?

'word "animal" that the BBFC hate'

I think the company/distributers changed it, not the BBFC.

golostruda:
'It is unpleasant to watch, it is not arousing, it is abusive, mysognistic and it makes my skin crawl.'
Are you talking about 'Baise Moi' or just any mainstream hollywood production? I think Rosie Boycott (what a name!) said on the BBC2 late night review prog that if this was made by a man then it would have been censored. The BBFC let it in because violence against men doesn't arouse women to copy the scenes but that 'expert' evidence shows (evidence which I haven't seen) that a small percentage of men might be aroused by male violence on women (whatever that means).
Why don't you complain about the misogyny in mainstream movies? Or isn't there any?

If the BBFC cut all the films that were 'unpleasant to watch' then a whole chunk of horror and real-life documentaries would be cut? Some people might find porn-movies, even plain vanilla, 'unpleasant to watch'. The bodily fluids flying about would shock many a soft conservative.

The point is that the BBFC is an illogical body - based on a shifting sand of dubious 'expert' opinion.

Magoo - I don't know why you pick out the germans but Holland and France seem to have more pseudo-rape fantasy videos.

Your quite right Mr King. The French and Dutch do have more rape films. The Germans are actually quite censorial in that they are the only country in mainland Europe who will not allow hardcore on TV, they do show tons of soft stuff like Electric Blue on RTL 2. I dont know why I picked on the Germans perhaps its because they bombed my gran and killed her boyfreind-she never got over that.

Sorry but I just don't accept that "porn is transgressive" justifies some of the more unpleasent stuff. Oh, porn is transgressive, is it? Oh, ok - well then. Let's not be concerned about girls being made to choke and vomit then eat their own vomit. You see how ridiculous that is? "Oh, it's supposed to push limits". Doesn't work, sweet.

Porn doesn't have a transgressive point. Its political and social positioning isn't well thought out and pre-planned. There's no pre-production meeting about how a particular film will manage to further progress us beyond the social barrier of taste and decency. Porn is a commercial excercise, simple as that. Films are made purely on the basis of profit and return. It does have a fascinating place in the psychology of society, but it doesn't deliberately set out to. That stuff just happens.

Like I've said before, comparisons to Hollywood films are totally inadequate. You watch a film with the willing suspension of disbelief. You know it's not real deep down yet you put yourself in a place where on one level you believe it is and enjoy it. Hardcore porn is not viewed with the same proviso. You watch it BECAUSE it's real.

You seem more concerned with yourself watching porn, where-as my argument is coming from a concern more for those involved in it. Sorry to hear your attempts at "wooing and seducing" women have been so unsuccesful that you're now forced into calling the whole experience "boring". I assure you that it's anything but, if you're doing it right.

As I referred to, there is actually a moral issue here - and it lies between the line of the old pagan theology "an it harm none, do as ye will" and the question of whether using someone as a body who will pretend to (?) be raped and made to eat her own excretions is actually causing someone harm.

Of course, I'm talking about the fringe stuff, here. Kiddie porn fantasies are NOT widespread and common. You've been spending too much time at your computer. Get out more. The world isn't so bad. It may be popular on select newsgroups, but the world has 6,000,000,000 people in it, and some reports suggest as little as 275 million are online. A fair picture of the state of human nature, your point isn't.

Jesus - I'm becoming Yoda. I have to go and lie down.


Matt

For information, if you go to Alpha Blue Archives



and look at the section for what they call roughies, you will find that pseudo rape films were common in the USA in the 70s.