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Rights and Privileges - discuss

Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 6:18 am
by Mysteryman
"A passport and a driving license are privileges giving to the people by the government" Quote by NandoRick in the "What I would like to know" thread

Well, he's fallen for that one hook, line and sinker hasn't he?

Who gives governments such power? Governments in a true democracy should be the servants of the people making laws and governing for the greater good, not dispensing largesse at the whim of a group of politicians or at the advice of faceless bureaucrats or allowing abuse of power by law enforcement agencies.

A passport is not a privilege. You have no say in where you are born and should have an absolute right to travel providing you can pay for the method of travel, support yourself whilst travelling and obey the laws of the countries you travel to or through. Right of abode is a different matter. You should have right of abode in your country of birth but, elsewhere, at the discretion of the government of that country.

As for driving licenses, anyone who can pass a driving test for the type of vehicle to be driven and obeys the rules of the road, thus not disqualifying themselves from the right to drive, has an absolute right to be behind the wheel of a vehicle they are entitled to drive.

Absolute monarchs used arbitrary powers at will. Democracies have watered down these powers but dictators have always enhanced them. Unfortunately, they are also being enhanced by democracies under the banner of "security".

Just look at how many freedoms are being lost and how many restrictions have been imposed by the US and UK governments since 9/11 with the excuse of "protecting freedom".

Example: A friend of mine is a senior engineer for a major European airline. He was visiting Arizona for meetings with an airline for whom his employer carries out third party maintenance and staying at an airport hotel. One morning he decided to go jogging on a public footpath which, at one point, runs along the airport fence. Now he was on a footpath alongside a public road with no restrictions posted. A police cruiser drew up alongside him and asked him what he was doing. It was, by the way, 7.45 am on a May morning. He said he was jogging. Asked why he stated it was his way of keeping fit.

He was told that if he wanted to keep fit he should join a gym. He was told to turn around and go back to his hotel and be sure not to be caught on the road again. When he stated that he thought he was free to run on a public footpath and he was in the "land of the free" the police officer stated that people in Arizona don't walk or jog, being close to an airport on foot is a threat to freedom and he, the officer, was just doing a job, protecting freedom!

When my friend talked to his contacts at the airport later in the day, he was shown the Ordinance which states the footpath he was on is a public right of way.

This is the way we are heading once we accept that basic rights are really privileges and every petty official has absolute power over our actions.

In the UK they reckon you are photographed up to 300 times a day if you live and work in an inner city - all in the name of freedom, but all without your consent.

Also, whilst most countries acknowledge their people as citizens, in the 21st century, countries where the Head of the House of Windsor is still acknowledged as the ruling monarch still insist that the people are "subjects".

It is a fact of life that governments of all colours and persuasions, whatever they do or say to get themselves into power, impose laws and regulations (there is a difference) concerning how we go about our everyday lives with little debate or public exposure, cloaked by debate and discussion of the "BIG ISSUES" and the public only find out, too late, that they have been imposed.

During the last three centuries people in Europe and the US have battled to free themselves from the yoke of restrictive governance. Many freedoms have been gained and maintained but many are still to be won and many are being lost in the current climate of fear.

Looking back on the 59 years I've been around, we were freer when we faced the "threat" from the Warsaw Pact than we are today and we had less hassle in a technologically immature world than we have today when our every move is overseen by cameras, by info technology collecting data, we have to have a pin to access our own information and "data protection" laws stop us discussing our own business without having to remember a stream of passwords, account numbers and minute personal details.

Seems to me Orwell had a point, just his timing was around 20 years out.

Re: Rights and Privileges - discuss

Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 7:26 am
by eroticartist
Hi Mysteryman,
What you say is right. I like your point about the British not being citizens but subjects of the monarch. What we need here to protect our dwindling civil liberties is a written constitution; this country being the only so called democracy in the world without one.
Mike Freeman



Re: Rights and Privileges - discuss

Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 9:31 am
by NandoRick
"A passport and a driving license are privileges giving to the people by the government" Quote by NandoRick in the "What I would like to know" thread

Well, he's fallen for that one hook, line and sinker hasn't he?


Hahaha, another easy catch.


[IMG]http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/6659/lukewortmanov1.jpg[/IMG]


Heres 1 caught earlier its called the Mysteryman trout


Re: Rights and Privileges - discuss

Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 9:33 am
by Mysteryman
If that's your only contribution to a debate about your rights and freedoms it says a great deal about how much you think and care about them.

Re: Rights and Privileges - discuss

Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 10:05 am
by NandoRick
mate of course i care about rights and freedom

Driving licence - pass your test get a driving licence FACT
Passport - Allows you travel to any free country that will accept you FACT
Break the law, suspect of criminal acitvity the government can take these of you FACT

its not rocket science

you took a quote from a thread about muslim girls who want to wear a Burqua in a passport photo , I was merely saying that in some countrys these girls are not allowed these items, so would be seen as a privilage in a free country.

If you felt i was wrong in what i said. why not reply in the thread already started and point this out.

Instead you make a new thread saying hes fell for it hook line and sinker and have me penciled in for a staring role in 1984

I seen your thread as a personal attack on me, maybe a fallout from the 9/11 thread.

anyways im over it already and im heading out for a day in the sun.

peace my friend


Re: Rights and Privileges - discuss

Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 10:31 am
by Bob Singleton
Mysteryman wrote:

[SNIP]

Also, whilst most countries acknowledge their people as citizens, in the 21st century, countries where the Head of the House of Windsor is still knowledged as the ruling monarch still insist that the people are "subjects".

[SNIP]



This is one of many arguments made by Tony Benn and his supporters for many years... nice to see you've finally caught up with some of us!


Re: Rights and Privileges - discuss

Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 11:06 am
by Mysteryman
Personal attack? Fall out from the 9/11 thread? I hope your day in the sun helps with your paranoia.

As far as starting another thread goes, what's the big deal? The massive erosion of freedoms and the belief by governments that they can do what the hell they like which has accelerated since the turn of the century at a dizzying speed, needs an airing.

Sorry if you don't like it but I'm sure you'll survive.

Re: Rights and Privileges - discuss

Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 11:07 am
by Mysteryman
Excuse me, I was arguing this in A level Outlines of British Government classes in 1963. Who needs to catch up?