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Hear a master at work:

Yeah, but what about if you don't want to "pull birds"? What about if you simply want a long term partner, as in friend and mate (ie. LOVE)?

You've still gotta meet em somehow and it aint gonna happen sitting in front of your PC. Believe me I know.

As I've asked others, WHERE THEN? They say the pub and clubs aren't places to go for meaningful relationships. And I hate those places for that reason; that and they're violent, full of smoke and I don't drink anyway. How did Alec Guinness put it? Oh yes, "Hives of scum and villainy. Sooo, again, WHERE?

If you go down the Alec Guiness route you will end up looking for trade in gents toilsts.

You can talk to women anywhere the supermarket, the park, the bus stop.

I often feel the same as you about pubs and clubs but sometimes you have to just bite the bullet.

Read "the game" by Neil Strauss

Bit of a generalisation there saying all pubs are violent. Just don't go to the violent pubs then.

The words "alcohol" and "rational thinking" don't go together. Been to pubs a few times and there were often fights, more often than not over women.

I've been going to pubs regularly for the last 17 years and I can count the number of fights I've seen in them on one hand. (alright, maybe 2 hands). And I'm from Glasgow!!

It definitely depends on the pubs you go to.

Drive a Porsche. Apart from my mates wife, who is a complete boiler, I have never seen an ugly woman in a Porsche.