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The original thread descended into chaos and Max bashing. I was as guilty as anyone of making daft posts in the last thread. My purpose is to start a new thread where we can discuss the issues without silly "lads banter" and "lets see who can be funniest".

I used to share the same point of view as Matt. Then I grew up. Max is not some evil child molester. But the porn he makes appeals to a certain part of male sexuality that most men refuse to admit to. Why are 17 vids so popular? Why are school uniforms so popular? Why are bald fannies so popular? I dont have the answers but I suspect Max Hardcores scenarios make a lot of men fear what lies in their own minds.

My personal taste is girls with big arses and shapely thighs. So I feel a bit left out when the industry is looking for girls who look too young to wear a bra.

Magoo - He likes his birds fully grown for a fuller flavour (bootifull says Bernard)

How wonderful for you to be so grown up ;)I have never said that Max is an evil child molester. I have said that his stuff is misogynistic and abusive. He'd say as much himself!

That something appeals cannnot surely be justification in itself for something existing? Non-consentual sex appeals to rapists. Some men will find that non consensual sex is something they may find arrousing. So is that justified to? Where is your line, magoo, that you draw between what you personally find acceptable, and the graphic depiction of the abuse of young girls (whether or not legally able to have sex)?

Listen, I've said a lot of harsh things about MH but I would defend his right to do whatever he likes so long as it harms no one else. The harm issue is exactly what is such a grey area, though. In my own personal opinion, I think that the industry would generally be better acknoledging the appeal of that sort of material but thinking better of indulging in it. That's my own opinion. Others have the right to think what they like too, and neither is superior.

Not all sexuality is healthy to indulge in. We all have to make our own decisions and draw our own limits. I respect yours, even if it is 'grown up'

Night night.

magoo wrote:

> I used to share the same point of view as Matt. Then I grew
> up. Max is not some evil child molester. But the porn he
> makes appeals to a certain part of male sexuality that most
> men refuse to admit to. Why are 17 vids so popular? Why are
> school uniforms so popular? Why are bald fannies so popular?
> I dont have the answers but I suspect Max Hardcores scenarios
> make a lot of men fear what lies in their own minds.

here, here!

Dear Matt,

I respect your point of view. But I bet when you reach your late twentys/early thirtys you will look back and realise that things are not as black and white as you thought they were.

I suggest you read some of Nancy Fridays books. They show that many women fantasise about rape and use it as a tool for masturbation. Of course we need to draw a line between reality and fantasy. Porn is not real sex. Rape is wrong but in porn its just fantasy.

But your arguement about Max etc holds no water as if we used your rule we should also ban all gangster movies just incase they encourage some no-brained twat to kill someone (its already happened).

Many a murder has been copied from Hollywood, De Niro and Co must therefor be as guilty as Max if not more so.

magoo wrote:

> They show that many women fantasise about rape and use it as a > tool for
> masturbation. Of course we need to draw a line between
> reality and fantasy. Porn is not real sex. Rape is wrong but
> in porn its just fantasy.

indeed. a lot of women do fantasize about being raped and i even used to know a girl who was quite open about this. i don't understand how people cannot accept that thoughts don't equal action. if i have lustfull thoughts about raping a woman, and i honestly never have, it doesn't mean i'm going to go out and actually rape someone! thats just nonsense. it a totally unrelated process. the same goes for revenge fantasies and any other nuber of thoughts that involve crime. it really freaks me when people start saying that you must be sick to fantasize about something that you will never ever do. its like the "thought police" have actually arrived.

and whether anybody likes it or not, the same applies to fantasizing about schoolgirls or any of the themes max touches on in his movies. you or i may or may not be repulsed by such ideas, but if no crime is commited then WTF???

Can I just point out that I am merely proposing a point of view.

I do not watch Max Hardcore films. It turns me off to see girls in discomfort.

I am only saying that everyone should have the right to watch what they want. Within the law and realms of decency of course.

If all participants in a film are happy then its OK. Obviously this does not apply to the Leanne McQueen scene. Poor girl. I felt so sorry for her. Richard Sheed (Dick Nasty) is a total arsehole. Thats why he works for seedy companies like Mike Hott and Totally Tastless Video. I doubt Vivid or VCA will be asking for his on screen presence.

Sorry Magoo, i think your talking complete nonesense.
And are you including yourself in your assumption that MH is
tapping into what most man fantasise about?

I agree with Matt, there is a alot of sick porn available which is popular. But when did popular become a good reason for justification.

I dont like MH, but i dont condemn anybody who does. Although i do worry exactly why somebody would watch a film where they are simulating that they are having sex with a 12yr old girl.
How far would these viewers like to see MH go. Thats the alarming question.

I dont think you speak for, as you put it "MOST" men Magoo.
And i bloody hope not!

We've had all this 'discussion' before.....
1) I suspect Magoo is correct in his assessment of the prevalence of male (and female) sexual fantasies involving some element of coercion: which is not to say that these individuals would like to see them acted out for real.
2) Acknowledgement of one's 'darker side' is part of being human: the trouble starts when one begin to repress these feelings, as they are liable then to become increasingly stronger.....as any criminal psychiatrist will tell you.
3) If Max Hardcore was shooting really non-consensual sex, the US authorities would close him down in seconds; they are particularly down on this, I understand.
4) There are several other US outfits at least as extreme as Max, none of which seem to get anything like as much heat on this forum.
5) I dislike his stuff personally, but dislike even more the demonising of someone whose massive financial success demonstrates that he is only tapping-into a wide demand. Perhaps his critics ought to be slamming the consumers, rather than the producers, of such material. But I would argue against that as well, on the grounds of freedom of choice: support for Max's silencing would be the thin end of the wedge that the Ultra-Conservatives are dailky praying for: witness the recent appalling efforts of their anti-Evolution brigade. Are you really prepared to cut off your own noses to spite your faces?
So.........exactly what is the problem, guys? If you don't like it, don't buy it. Or are you worried that you'll be infected with such 'perversions' by some sort of sexual osmosis?

I didn't understand this bit...
'Q: Ask him where he personally would draw the line?

Max: I haven't yet discovered my limitations, but I keep searching.

Q: What are his taboos? Is he only constrained by what is currently legal?

Max: No kids, no animals, no shitting.'

Read my fucking post again! I was not saying most men find Maxs stuff erotic. I for one do not like Max Hardcore. I was merely exploring an idea and an arguement.

Thats probably hard for you to grasp. He who protesteth the loudest is probably a nonce. Look at your spelling. Its worse than mine and I have had 12 cans of Stella.

I am glad you agree with Matt. I make excuses for Matt because he is a young lad. And he is able to put together a proper arguement unlike you. The plural of man is men you daft arse.
I shall deal with you later young fella me lad.