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Forumites will have perhaps noticed that Cleggie has been particularly hard on the other two parties re. the expenses scandal. Rightly so. And he has highlighted how the Lib Dems have come out reasonably well in comparison with the other two parties re. expenses fiddling.

In the TV debate on 22nd April he said "Politicians who sell their houses and pocket the money still haven't been held to account". He even wrote a letter to Gordon stating "MPs should not be able to profit from sale of properties they have bought on the back of subsidies from the taxpayer"

Quite right, I hear you shout!

What Cleggie has been less than forthcoming about is that he made a bonzo profit of ?311,000 profit on his home in Brussels at a time when he was receiving a daily allowance of ?250 from the taxpayer to cover subsistence, local travel and accommodation. Cleggie owned the house between 2001 and 2005 while he was an MEP. He sold the home in 2005. During this period he trousered 160,000 euros in allowances including specifically accommodation expenses.

Of course, Cleggie is a fervent admirer of the EU. Perhaps those lovers of freedom like Mike Freeman who have expressed a desire to vote Cleggie, might comment on whether they like the idea of joining the euro, which Cleggie is particularly keen on. The inevitable result of this is that the UK loses control of our ability to change its currency valuation. There is also the little matter of once having joined the euro, the UK may be required to cough up further billions in Euroland to support the likes of Greece where 30% of the GDP is the black economy.

Just a thought!

D

With Greece massivly in debt, Portugal going the same way, and even "rich" countries like ours having huge debts, maybe this is the begining of the end of the EU.

I have always felt the EU is a huge overblown organization that will one day implode as it is almost impossible to keep going in its present form.

The EU is expensive, corrupt, full of red tape, and always seems to pass "human rights" laws that favour the criminal, the illegal immigrant and so on.

Any situation that:

* Allows Roma gypsies to move from Romania and live here
* Makes the UK pay child benefit to POLISH children living in Poland
* Pays farmers in Greece NOT to grow olives (or any farmer NOT to grow somthing)

...is on a slippery slope.

The sooner the EU collapses the better for us all.

You say "Of course, Cleggie is a fervent admirer of the EU. Perhaps those lovers of freedom like Mike Freeman who have expressed a desire to vote Cleggie, might comment on whether they like the idea of joining the euro, which Cleggie is particularly keen on. The inevitable result of this is that the UK loses control of our ability to change its currency valuation. There is also the little matter of once having joined the euro, the UK may be required to cough up further billions in Euroland to support the likes of Greece where 30% of the GDP is the black economy."

Personally yes I would join the Euro because I hate paying to change my pounds to Euros and so would a lot of other people too then I could take full advantage of the one market and move goods and services around freely without customs and taxes.

Clegg would not force the British People to join the Euro but he would let them decides for themselves through a referendum as he as always promised.

The UK tax payer "coughed up billions" anyway the government when the used their money to bail out British banks in the recent financial crisis. Also it is not only The EC who are supporting Greece but also the International Monetetary Fund.

The British black econonomy is bigger than Greece's especially with all the billions made through the booming drugs, prostitution and illegal pornography markets to name a few things and without that money being spent on goods and services the UK economy would collapse!

You can slander Clegg but I don't believe that he is dishonest and the reason the Labcon and Conlab parties are scared of him is that he will clean up the Augean Stables of corruption that exists in the UK.

A special squad of incorruptible police officers will be formed to do the job and the anger of the British People will be satisfied.

Mike Freeman

"You can slander Clegg but I don't believe that he is dishonest "

So which part of what I stated is untrue and slanderous to the Blessed Cleggie?

"Personally yes I would join the Euro because I hate paying to change my pounds to Euros "

Are you happy then for the following to take place?:

In a recession, the UK can no longer stimulate its economy by devaluing its currency and increasing exports.
Entry would mean a permanent transfer of domestic monetary autonomy to the European Central Bank implying giving up flexibility on exchange rates and short-term interest rates.
Since there will only be a Europe-wide interest rate, individual countries that increase their debt will raise interest rates in all other countries.
Substantial monetary transfers will be needed for poorer countries within the EU along with an active European Regional Policy to reduce structural economic inequalities. The UK might not feel able to afford such large-scale intra-European transfers.
Do you want to see the UK part of this mess
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010 ... oo-germany

"Clegg would not force the British People to join the Euro "

Agreed. Fair comment.

"The UK tax payer "coughed up billions" anyway the government when the used their money to bail out British banks in the recent financial crisis"

As did the governments in Euroland. Having to cough up extra to support economies in Euroland which have been historically run in a completely different way doesn't make it alright does it?

"The British black econonomy is bigger than Greece's especially with all the billions made through the booming drugs, prostitution and illegal pornography markets to name a few things and without that money being spent on goods and services the UK economy would collapse!
"

You are not comparing like with like here. The black economy is traditionally used to refer to people such as builders, hairdressers etc etc doing work for cash in hand. It does not include illegal activities such as drugs, illegal pornography markets.

Estimates I have seen suggest that it involves approximately 2 million people in the UK. In Greece, the black economy is estimated at about 30% of GDP and is ingrained at every level of society.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/f ... 509244.stm

Cheers
D

You say "You are not comparing like with like here. The black economy is traditionally used to refer to people such as builders, hairdressers etc etc doing work for cash in hand. It does not include illegal activities such as drugs, illegal pornography markets."

Yes most self employed builders in the UK work in the Black Economy and most Polish self employed builders undercut the indigenous worker by fifty per cent. They work quickly, earn som money then go back home. Any self- employed British builder will confirm what I say, same goes with hairdressers only they are mostly British who work from home and it's all cash in hand. But as I say without their cash going into the economy it would collapse.
Mike Freeman.

Mike,
You do not appear to have understood my point. The figures for the UK black economy include estimates for what you describe going on in the building trade, hairdressing etc.

That is my point! And the size of the black economy is still a lot lower than in Greece which you deny.

Secondly, I note that you accused me of slandering Nick Clegg. I challenged you to state which part of my message is slanderous.

And your answer is?

D

I think that the corruption and misinformation in the UK indicates that the black economy is higher than Greece's.

What is the source of your information about Clegg surerly not the mendacious Tory owned Times or the Telgraph?

The Guardian and the Observer are now supporting the Liberal Democrats as Labour has not got a chance!
Mike Freeman.

Mike

"I think that the corruption and misinformation in the UK indicates that the black economy is higher than Greece's."

Okay, you disagree without any evidence whatsoever to support your view. And even though the parlous state of Greece's finance where its credit rating has been reduced to junk status, suggests otherwise. Has the UK corruption and misinformation forced the ratings agency to give junk status to Greece's credit rating then? Has the UK corruption and misinformation forced the EU Central Bank and the IMF to get involved in the Greece mess.

I suspect your view is not shared by the EU Central Bank and the IMF.

"What is the source of your information about Clegg surely not the mendacious Tory owned Times or the Telgraph?
The Guardian and the Observer are now supporting the Liberal Democrats as Labour has not got a chance!"

First of all, it is good of you to illustrate that you clearly do not know whether the remarks about Clegg are true or not. And therefore you have absolutely no right to accuse me of slander given that you provide NO evidence that the story is false.

For your information, I read the story in the Lib Dem supporting Guardian!
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010 ... p-brussels

Have a nice day
D

Re. the Cleggie story about him trousering a huge profit on selling his house in Brussels whilst getting hundreds of thousands of taxpayers euros to cover stuff like accommodation and food.

"The Lib Dems say Mr Clegg paid for the mortgage from his private income. There is no suggestion he broke any rules."

You may have come across this excuse before somewhere? Perhaps?

D

I an not an expert on Liberal politics as you seem to imply you are, David,
and you clearly know your stuff, apparently, on what Mr Clegg has been
doing with his money. Either you read the Daily Mail avidly or are in
cahoots with his banker or someone powerful in Brussels.....
My point is this - before attacking the guy on what he may or may not
have done as part of the "black economy" (your words) , I would be a
tad careful....our own Industry has a long history of being a major black
economy business, though maybe every talent in squeaky politically
correct Britain takes cheques these days (in my time there, and in USA
and in Europe talent and crews always wanted easily hidden cash) !