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I saw the former head of MI5 giving evidence at the Iraq Enquiry yesterday and she said some interesting things. She said that our invasion of the country radicalised a huge section of the British muslim population and made a significant number of them consider committing terrorists acts within the UK because they saw the invasion as an attack on Islam. She went on to say that within two years of the invasion MI5 were overwhelmed with so many potential terrorist plotters within the muslim community in the UK that they couldn't keep up. She also said that the vacuum created by getting rid of Saddam gave Bin Laden 'his Jihad' as there was from then no real Government or administration operating in Iraq and his cells were able to move in and create major problems and commit atrocities.

I do believe that Tony B Liar said that our invading Iraq would keep our country safer and that the middle-east was better off as a result of us going in there. He also said something about Weapons of Mass Destruction. Everything that was said by him, Geoff "Saddam can launch WMD's within 45 minutes" Hoon, and Alistair Campbel have been proven to have been the total opposite from the truth. With what this woman said this week I would say that Iraq was a bigger disaster than Suez and possibly the biggest distaster EVER for our country. I would like to see Blair and Hoon jailed but instead they are both earning a fortune in the private sector. What are other peoples views on all this?

max_tranmere wrote:

> I saw the former head of MI5 giving evidence at the Iraq
> Enquiry yesterday and she said some interesting things. She
> said that our invasion of the country radicalised a huge
> section of the British muslim population and made a significant
> number of them consider committing terrorists acts within the
> UK because they saw the invasion as an attack on Islam.

To be accurate, Baroness Manningham-Buller said 'a whole generation of young people' before immediately modifying her remark to 'a few among a generation':

Hi
I would like to see Blair on trial at the Hague along with Bush, but unfortunately it wont happen.

However Max, it is worth pointing out that the Tories in 2002 were far more extreme than the Labour party in the readiness to get involved. Here's a quote from William Hague in Sept 2002. It would be foolish to assume that if Blair and Labour had not been in power, there would have been no Iraq invasion. All the evidence points to the opposite.

"Does the Prime Minister recollect that, in the half-century history of various states acquiring nuclear capabilities, in almost every case?from the Soviet Union in 1949 to Pakistan in 1998?their ability to do so has been greatly underestimated and understated by intelligence sources at the time? Estimates today of Iraq taking several years to acquire a nuclear device should be seen in that context, and within that margin of error. Given that, and the information from defectors five years after the Gulf war, that 400 nuclear sites and installations had been concealed in farmhouses and even schools in Iraq, is there not at least a significant risk of the utter catastrophe of Iraq possessing a nuclear device without warning, some time in the next couple of years? In that case, does not the risk of leaving the regime on its course today far outweigh the risk of taking action quite soon??

Cheers
D

Dave, you crack me up. Really you do.

It was Labour who took the UK into Iraq - and to your credit you condemn that course of action and don't seek to justify it simply because your natural instinct is to tow the Labour Party line.

But even then, you can't resist taking a pop at the Tories can you? You post above (paraphrased) basically boils down to "yes Blair was bad - but the Tories were worse. Really they were. Honest!".

Hilarious!

It doesn't matter one jot what little Willie Hague said. As has often been pointed out, when you're in opposition you can say whatever the fuck you like. And to say that the outcome would have been the same under a Tory government is pure speculation on your part. Maybe it would. Maybe it wouldn't. We'll never know.

Bottom line: It was Labour's war, Labour's mess. And forget ye not that cross-party Parliamentary backing was gained on the strength of dodgy dossiers and all the other bullshit justifications of NuLabour.

I don't always see eye to eye with Sam Slater, Dave. But I reckon he got it spot on in that other thread when he suggested that you turn within to find inner peace. Because you sound like a very bitter man indeed. At least where politics is concerned.

- Eric

Eric

Wot no smileys? You alright?

"It was Labour's war, Labour's mess. "

I agree and have agreed for years. To repeat I have frequently stated that I would like to see Blair on trial at the Hague.

Then you say
"And forget ye not that cross-party Parliamentary backing was gained on the strength of dodgy dossiers and all the other bullshit justifications of NuLabour"

Here you are on weaker ground.

Again the additional point I make is that the Tory leadership, I suspect would have acted in exactly the same way. I highlighted Hague's comment in 2002.

And even after all that stuff about the dodgy dossier, Cameron still supported Blair's decision.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/5108584.stm

And only yesterday after all the reservations about the Chilcott inquiry findings, Cleggie was made to sit on the naughty step by Cameron for saying at Prime Ministers Questions that "the Iraq war was illegal". I happen to agree with Cleggie. Cameron and the Tories don't.

Here's another quote for you

Liam Fox?

"Does anyone believe the Iraqi people, the region or the world would have been better off with Saddam still in power?"

If I remember rightly, the Tories (in the form of Mr Ancrum) were first to come out and say that they would have supported the invasion even if they had known that Iraq didn?t have WMD.

This blows your argument completely out of the water that it was only the dodgy dossier at the time of the Iraq war vote that got the support of the Tories .

And as for your agreement to Sam Slater's reference to me as turning within to find inner peace. This is the guy who said he would "rather eat his face off than vote Tory" and has a quote from Clegg in his sig for each post he makes here.

Maybe we should check if there is a place for both of us.

Cheers
D

The only mainstream party that came out of the Iraq war disaster with any merit is the Lib Dems. They werent taken in by the whole dodgy dossier thing nor were they keen to get rid of Saddam, irrespective of whether he had WMD or not.

Cheers
D

Personally I would like to see Tony B Liar and that idiot Buffoon fucking shot by the very people he condemned to a savage war to keep face with the biggest idiot of all time, George W fucking Bush!
But, it aint gonna happen, so, I will stir a big cauldron of shit laced with stinging nettles, frogs heads, herring gull shit (of which there is a large amount on my fucking roof) an stale piss whilst muttering the magic words, "Bollocks to the bastards"!!!
With luck B Liar will trip up and smash his fucking stupid teeth on the pavement and Buffoon will get run over by a Challenger 2.
We can only hope.

Does anybody REALLY think there is any chance at all that at the end of this Iraq war inquiry they may conclude, and publicly state, that Blair and his inner-circle lied about the WMD's, sexed-up the dossiers, hood-winked the public, and so on? Not a chance in hell I would imagine. There will be a strong smell of white paint on the day of the publication, just like there was with the inquiry into the Falklands war.