egafd.com

Hi,
First as frequent readers of the forum know, I am not exactly apolitical. And I realise that there are plenty of bad stories that you could pick up about the Labour party in government, starting with Iraq.

However for me, the following two stories summarise life with Cameron and Cleggie.

In the middle of swingeing cuts, Cameron and Cleggie pulled the plug on a loan to Sheffield Forgemasters. Cleggie slandered one of the owners of Sheffield Forgemasters in the process, for which he subsequently apologised. However at more or less the same time, the Lib Dem Con government overturned the Labour decision to put the building of an airport on the tiny island of St. Helena in the South Atlantic on hold. The Lib Dem Cons gave it the go-ahead. Why?

Apparently, Lord Ashcroft, the billionaire donor to the Tory party had been lobbying for the airport to be built. He has a number of business interests in the South Atlantic and was unable to land his private jet there. Andrew Mitchell, the Tory International Development Secretary who helped to make the decision had been flown all over the world by Ashcroft's company whilst in opposition. Ashcroft had almost single-handedly saved the Tories from going bust a few years back with his donations.

Now back to Sheffield. The Guardian reported 30 young people, many of them brought up in local authority care, protesting about plans to slash the budget for Sheffield Futures, an agency that provides support and advice to young people. The government has hammered payments of area-based grants directed at deprived communities.

"I've not had the best start in life" said Augusta Wilson, her voice trembling. "If they take this away it feels like they are setting me up to fail" She pledged to take the fight to central government and "that Nick Clegg". "He's not very popular around here, you know, except with himself".

Like Porn Historian, at least Margaret Thatcher was open in her contempt for the poor. This bunch of Lib Dem Con fuckers we have in power now, lecture us on how good for us these cuts are whilst rifling through our wallets. A pox on them.

Cheers
D

Well said. Apparantly there are ?16 million in UNCLAIMED benefits,i dont think we will be seeing crying from the rooftops about this,where as they can't stop shouting about claimants who may be getting more than they deserve.

He promised to flush the Taliban out of Pakistan didn't he ! He doesn't fuck about does he ?

?16 million seems a drop in the ocean when you read this:

Ah yes, the Telegraph.

Far be it for me to accuse the Telegraph of bias, but maybe they forgot to point out that it is estimated that ?25 billion a year is lost in tax avoidance and ?7 billion a year in tax evasion by large companies and wealthy individuals. It's funny but you dont see the Sun and the Mail banging on about tax avoiders incessantly. I wonder why that is?

It would also have been relevant for the Telegraph to point out that a significant proportion of benefits are in fact subsidising those employers in the UK, of which there are many, who do not pay a living wage to their workforce. I seem to recall the Tories including our esteemed Prime Minister opposing at the time the horrifically high minimum hourly rate of ?4 something that Labour introduced on the grounds that British industry could not possibly afford it.

I probably missed that bit of news, but when did Cameron announce that he was planning to introduce private bounty hunters to chase down the tax avoiders and tax evaders as he plans something similar for "welfare scroungers"?

Cheers
D

James/Number 6,
I reread the thread to see where you got the 16 million figure from. I think number 6 has got the figure wrong. It is my understanding that the Citizens Advice Bureau figure is that it may be as much as 16 BILLION unclaimed in a whole range of benefits.

Still just a mere hors d'oeuvre, of course, compared to the ?800 billion + that the UK banking industry trousered in return for a ?2billion levy. Nice work if you can get it.

It is also worth pointing out that based on the Department of Work and Pensions own estimate figures the percentage of total welfare spend that is fraudulently obtained is .7% i.e. 1 billion out of 148 billion.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-10922261

You may ask yourselves why Dave and Cleggie are getting Experian to try and track down this benefit fraud when the much larger amount lost through tax avoidance is awaiting a crackdown?

Well most of the Tory dosh comes from tax avoiders. But maybe I am just Mr. Cynical.

Cheers
D

David you surely should be awarded the, "New Labour's Apologist of the Year!" I'm sure Tony Blair himself, (if you were to interrupt him at his local bank whilst he's banking some of his ?20 million) would be quite touched by your fervant loyalty of simply everything that New Labour did during their 13 years of folly.

Your aguments always follow a consistent pattern, that is to say, what ever the point someone has made, go off on a complete irrelevant tangent and say what might have happened if the Tories had been in power.

EG: Imagine this scenario:

New Labour inadvertently set off a nuclear weapon in the middle of London. As a result, 15 million people have died and 5 million have been injured. There are a few working PC's left and most of them are logged on BGAFD for some reason.. Someone has made a post complaining about the genocide New Labour has caused.

Your reply would be:

"Ok so 15 million are dead and 5 million are wounded, so what? that's nothing, imagine what would have happened if the Tories had accidently set the bomb off instead!, I reckon they'd take years longer than New Labour to rebuild the city and I reckon the Tories got less radiation anyway, cos they're better fed than Labour supporters, so there's more fat for the gamma rays to get through! Yeah those Tory bastards, it's all their fault etc etc........"

You do crack me up David and I'm not being serious here, because I think as normal folk, there is no point getting wound up by politics. At the end of the day they are all a bunch of bastards.......except New Labour are a bunch of hypocritical bastards!

Anyway keep up the good work!!happy!

"David you surely should be awarded the, "New Labour's Apologist of the Year!" I'm sure Tony Blair himself, (if you were to interrupt him at his local bank whilst he's banking some of his ?20 million) would be quite touched by your fervant loyalty of simply everything that New Labour did during their 13 years of folly"

James, this is incorrect nonsense. On this forum, I have on a number of occasions, suggested that I would like to see Blair on trial at the Hague for war crimes. On this forum, I have also said they make mistakes about such things as not restricting the number of Poles that migrated to the UK and not doing enough for the low paid in tax terms etc etc. To describe this as "fervent loyalty of simply everything that New Labour did" is crap.

"Your aguments always follow a consistent pattern, that is to say, what ever the point someone has made, go off on a complete irrelevant tangent and say what might have happened if the Tories had been in power".

You call it a "complete irrelevant tangent". I call it balance. Lke many forumites, the Tory press go on ad infinitum about "welfare scroungers". How much the tax burden is because of welfare benefits. They rarely if ever go on about tax avoiders etc even though the losses incurred to the revenue are many many times more due to tax avoiders than welfare fraud. Go figure for yourself, why that is.

Your scenario is nonsense. There is a difference between political parties. And in some ways it is a question of choosing the least worse option. For me that is the Labour party. You are welcome to have your view. I have frequently highlighted on this forum the various things that the Labour party did to support those who are not rich and challenged Tory supporters to describe what the Tory party have done. So far all the Tory supporters run away and hide at that point.

"there is no point getting wound up by politics. At the end of the day they are all a bunch of bastards.......except New Labour are a bunch of hypocritical bastards!"

I was brought up in the North East. If you went there and announced that the only difference between Thatcher's government and New labour is that New Labour are a bunch of hypocritical bastards, they would piss themselves laughing at you....... then they might thump you.

Cheers
D

You said:

"I was brought up in the North East. If you went there and announced that the only difference between Thatcher's government and New labour is that New Labour are a bunch of hypocritical bastards, they would piss themselves laughing at you....... then they might thump you."

There you go again, on an irrelevant tangent,(Who's mentioned anything about "Thatchers government?") except this time with a hint of menace, ie ...............so John Prescott! and presumably the "Icky-thump" brigade would pat the crooked, money grabbing warmonger Blair on the back say, "Ee ba gum, Tone, ye deserve evry' penny of thet 20 mill and we don't mind that you've sent our sons to die needlessly in a war for oil and power, cos you're New Labour and in touch wit common folk like us!"

Why do you assume that because I loathe and hate "New Labour" that I must therefore love the Tories?

I'll sign off here David, there can never any balanced argument with a political or religious zealot. Shame, because I was enjoying the banter.

James

I am neither a political or religious zealot... clearly. Otherwise I wouldn't be arguing for Blair to be charged with war crimes at the Hague, would I if I was some kind of New Labour zealot?

I note you said absolutely nothing about the fact that your statement "I'm sure Tony Blair himself, (if you were to interrupt him at his local bank whilst he's banking some of his ?20 million) would be quite touched by your fervant loyalty of simply everything that New Labour did during their 13 years of folly" is obviously complete nonsense.

Secondly you stated "There is no point getting wound up about politics. At the end of the day they are all a bunch of bastards.......except New Labour are a bunch of hypocritical bastards!"

Correct me if I am wrong but wasn't Thatcher's government "about politics"?

Your statement obviously reflects what a number of people say i.e. they are all the same these bastard politicians blah blah, just innit for themselves and as for those hypocritical bastards, the Labour party blah, blah.

I shouldn't have to repeat this. But once again there are clearly differences between political parties. Thatcher devasted the North East as she did other areas of this country. The Labour government had many deficiencies (have you read that, many deficiencies?) but as far as I can see, the Labour party was better for those people who aren't really well-off and particularly, the disadvantaged, than Thatcherism ever was.

Then you say
"Why do you assume that because I loathe and hate "New Labour" that I must therefore love the Tories?"

I don't assume you love the Tories. Please point to where I said you did.

What I am challenging, is your view that politicians are all bastards and implicitly they are all the same.

"I'll sign off here David, there can never any balanced argument with a political or religious zealot."

I'm used to this kind of argument. A stream of insults, followed by "I don't agree with you Jim, so it's me that can't have a balanced argument".

If you don't want people to ever disagree with you, best not to write rubbish accusing me of being some kind of Blairite New Labour zealot after I have written a number of times that I would like to see the guy arrested.

Cheers
D