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I wonder if anyone else thinks the UK is fucked whoever is in power? Under New Labour you get the building of enormous, top heavy, self serving state institutions, which are inefficient and recklessly squander ?billions. Under the Tories you get the reckless hacking of these same institutions in the name of cost cutting. Meanwhile, under both parties, for the rich and the crooked bankers, its "business as usual" Both parties are crippled by political dogma and are unable to introduce any real radical change. Both parties are in the pocket of the USA.
Can anyone with non partisan views see a way out of this quagmire?(Firing squads not permitting!)

jimslip wrote:

> Can anyone with non partisan views see a way out of this
> quagmire?(Firing squads not permitting!)

No, not even with firing squads permitting.
I fear, for this whole system to be decontaminated it has to go to pot first.

I think you could talk to anyone in any current democratic country and hear the same complaints.

Currently, Australia is dead lucky because we have literally billions of tons of minerals and energy that China is hungry for. This is fine, but many Aussies don't see much of that money (our government's budget is still in deficit) and of course, if China goes wobbly, we're fucked! Whichever government is in power at the time seems to make bugger all difference.

The problem for Britain is that the rest of the world stole your industrial revolution after you'd worked out how it's done and you've never quite found anything to replace it. I understand that the 'service industry' is now considerably bigger than the manufacturing sector in the UK. The financial administration biz has it's place, but I wonder why the UK didn't follow Germany and Japan and just move up to producing technologically advanced, quality products? Surely that's the only way up isn't it?

Jimbo - I live in Budapest, as you well know. Here the people sound just
like you, perhaps worse, as all Hungarians are deep-dyed cynics (not
surprising after their fucked up history).
They would all argue their country is far worse off than GB (and this is
definitely true economically), but in my humble opinion here are a few
basic facts:
a) Every country these days, with populations rising worldwide, struggle
to contain and control their peoples using ever larger Govt ministries/
agencies/quangos. The little man and individual liberties are getting
trampled not just in GB but everywhere.
b) Bankers have always been corrupt....though it is not necessarily the
root of the problem. Bankers always make sure of No 1 and make sure
the profit margin is vast. Its the nature of their business. It has always
pissed off people. I seem to recall one A. Hitler Esq blamed the Jewish
bankers in the 1930`s........and we know where that lead !
c) You are right about the USA. Sucking up to them goes back a long
way. The last PM to stand up to the USA was Harold Wilson (Lyndon
Johnson begged him to send Brits into Vietnam, Wilson used
sneaky but good diplomacy to keep us out ! ) I have shouted for years
that the USA has had an anti-British foreign policy since it began (even
Roosevelt did crafty stuff with Stalin behind Churchill`s back).
d) It is a quagmire. Cheer up mate. Another 20 years and you will be too
old to care !

I think both partiies may as well join up, because their true master is the same, Political Correctness. This scourge has rendered both parties impotent. In another time, in the same political climate,a brutal dictator would have risen from nowhere and taken power.

I'm not quite so pessimistic as some people in this thread.

I think what needs to happen is:

1. The government of whatever flavour needs to take on the extreme capitalism of the multinationals which has allowed them to develop a position of strength where they can rip us off royally e.g. the utility companies and take all their profits offshore to avoid tax e.g. where do I start!

2. Voters realise that the coalition plan to get the economy back on its feet isnt working. The last 6 months have seen the economy flatline. The predicted UK growth has been downgraded. Osborne has been warned by economic statisticians that despite swingeing cuts, he isnt going to make his deficit reduction forecast.

3. Show people there is a different way of reducing the defict e.g. some kind of policy aimed at helping job creation e.g. substantial national insurance reduction.

4. A plan for growth that doesnt involve licking the arse of the finance sector or going along with huge rises in personal debt. e.g. getting the state controlled banks to get involved in investing in industry and housing.

5. Increase minimum wages so there actually is some incentive to work as opposed to existing on ?65 a week jobseekers allowance and cut taxes for the low/middle income people.

I will leave you to work out which is the party most likely to follow the above plan.

Cheers
D

"Really it makes no difference-all the parties are the same,"

This is wrong. There are limitations on what any party can achieve in a democracy given the power of the multinationals. See point 1 in We're all doomed, doomed!

However within those constraints there is a lot of room for manouevre.

When people say they (political parties) are all the same etc etc. I tend to just post this and ask people to describe what Thatcher did in these areas etc. I have never had a reply from any of our Tory chums highlighting the benefits of Tory government.

http://bgafd.co.uk/forum/read.php?f=3&i ... ply_221516

So in short there is a difference between political parties and it does matter who you vote for.

Cheers
D

If you dont see any difference between labour and tory govts,then you have obviously never been poor.

I don't know why people keep going on about bankers, your average bank employee doesn't really earn a great deal of money. I recall years ago before I was going on a tour, I was trying to sort out a currency issue, my bank manager at the time came to my house, we were sat in my studio, and he told what he was earning, I was quite shocked, I paid one of my managers far more than that, it's Investment bankers that have caused the problem, not retail banks, Investment bankers, hedge fund managers, speculators, these are the real culprits, not your average bank worker or manager, a lot of them have also lost their jobs through all this unregulated investment nonsense, you should feel sorry for ordinary bankers, they are just the same as nurses, firemen etc, they had no part in this global financial meltdown, the real culprits should be in Jail.