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So just before the election, Cameron said that there would be "no top down reorganisation of the NHS".

Almost immediately after, the coalition government were elected they introduced the biggest reform of the NHS ever. The bill is far bigger than the bill which created the NHS in the first place. THey had given virtually no information about this before the election so it is fair to say they have no mandate whatsoever for this bill. In addition.....

1. There have been hundreds of amendments that have been forced through despite government opposition.
2. As far as I know every professional body representing NHS workers and journals writing about the NHS believe the bill is a disaster and should be scrapped.
3. THe cross party Parliamentary Health Committee, largely made up of coalition MPs and led by an ex Tory Health Minister, Stephen DOrrell have reported that the bill is a total distraction and ludicrous to introduce at a time that the NHS is being asked to make ?20 billion of "efficiency savings".
4. The Tory Reform Group is totally against the bill.
5. Many MPs have stated that the Bill is totally unreadable.
6. The coalition government has refused to make available the Risk Register produced which analyses various scenarios that might occur with the bill being implemented fully.
7. The Information Commissioner has demanded the release of the Risk Register but this has been turned down by the government who are looking to use the law to postpone release until after the bill has been passed.
8. Despite the bill not being passed yet, wholesale changes such as redundancies from Primary Care Trusts which are due to be abolished eventually have already been made. Many of these people who have received taxpayer funded redundancy packages are then getting employed by GP commissioning groups. The main argument used by the coalition government in particular the Lib Dems is that they cant backtrack on the bill now because many of the changes have already been made.
9. The changes greatly increase the bureaucracy from what it was under the last Labour government because the government has not left enough time for GP constituency groups to take over completely so in effect there are two systems working.

Based on the above, is the NHS Bill the most shambolic and undemocratic bill in living memory?

"Based on the above, is the NHS Bill the most shambolic and undemocratic bill in living memory?"

I think you are forgetting the Bills that introduced the Poll Tax, sorry I mean "Community Charge".

That was another Tory success story wasn't it?

I remember the Poll Tax and for me, the NHS bill caps it by a long way with regard to incompetence and lack of democracy.

Maybe you are right.

The point I was trying to make in a cumbersome way was that Tory governments have a long and distinguished record in delivering incompetent and undemocratic legislation.

As you can see most people don't really give a toss either way. The NHS is just a tennis ball that is lobbed between 2 party ideologies. Neither party actually gives a flying fuck about the patients.

New Labour builds enormous top heavy, inefficient, fat cat run, cash guzzling hierachies and the Tories try to knock them down and replace them with, "Business models" which don't work either.

If these New Labour and Tory, hopeless wankers actually cared about US the people, they would put their heads together and attempt to build an NHS together for the common good. This NHS cause is way above pathetic party politics and unfortunately its future success is certainly way beyond the grasp of pea brained politicians.

Just a quick thought before I'm lectured on how, "Everything was just peqchy in the NHS" under New Labour, I took the opportunity to allow myself to remember the NHS BEFORE 13 years of New Labour.

For example I seem to remember being able to get my teeth sorted out without having to take out a mortgage. I also seem to remember I was with an NHS dentist. I also seem to remember being able to get a doctor to visit you at home. Also I can't recall medicine being regarded as a "Lark" to rake in loads of money, it was a "Vocation", does anyone remember what that means? lol I don't recall GP's managing to do less work but earning ?200,000+ per annum!

I am sure that you will correct me with a veritable tsunami of stats, but it is my impression that New Labour turned many aspects of the NHS into a casino like money spinner for management, doctors, surgeons and administrators. Of course everyone else like porters, nurses, cleaners etc were all left to rot!

But wasn't that always the policy of new Labour? Socialism perverted and twisted into a new shape where fat cats and management were rewarded beyond their wildest dreams whist the workers were urinated on?

But of course its only my impression.

jimslip wrote:

I also seem to remember
> being able to get a doctor to visit you at home.

My last 'home visit' by the doctor somehow ended up with me driving to A&E to meet him there. Now I may have misunderstood the term 'home visit' but............

Not sure if you use the NHS Jimslip,but the state of it when labour left power to when they got in was blindingly obvious. Waiting lists lowest ever,more nurses,more doctors,highest ever approval rating amongst the public. People who value the NHS and use it realise this.

Thats right waiting times under labour were at an all time low.

As soon as tory twat Andrew Lansley started fucking around the waiting times were up by 40% in 2010/11. He's a complete dickhead!

number 6 wrote:

People who value the NHS
> and use it realise this.

No they don't. My last major use of the NHS, under your wonderful Nu Labour control, was a shambolic mess.