egafd.com

I posted earlier in the week requesting a European mailing address (thanks to those who replied and emailed me directly - I will get to contact u eventually!!!). The main reason for doing this was to have a NON UK address to which I could get customers to return faulty DVDs to without having to reveal my identity and / or location within the UK so I dont get a knock on my door some morning from trading standards or the cops.

Last night, in an extreme fit of boredom, I spent some time checking out some competitors sites in the UK and I was astounded to see at least 5 companies doing what I am doing who publish their UK addresses and even phone numbers on their websites. Two of them were also selling non certified content (including fisting for example which as we all know is deemed "obscene" in the BBFC eyes) as well as R18. Some of them also accept cheques making it so easy for the "law" (be that police, trading standards or whoever) to track them down as and when they want to. Also, as an aside, two of them are using Worldpay as their payment processor despite them explicitly forbidding DVD and video sales.

Anyway my question is am I wasting my time with all this cloak and dagger stuff?? For example, I refuse to accept cheques as it means I can be easily traced and likewise wont give out my address in the UK to accept cash orders despite turning away business because of this. I also made a decision to only sell R18 despite it meaning my catalogue is much smaller and Im paying higher prices as I cant buy from Europe BUT at the moment the only offence I am committing is not selling R18 from a licensed sex shop.

Do the police and trading standards really give a shit? Am I likely to get "busted" for doing this if I put a UK address on the site or does no one care as long as the content I am selling is legal?

All advice welcomed!!!!

Jay

Unfortunately you are on your own in the dock !!! what the others are doing won't help you one little bit.

Extracts: These will give examples of how TS apply and argue the law and costs involved plus add your legal costs to this if you get caught.




7th April
More Obscene Law
Pabo have German directors and supply from Holland and hence the supply side seems totally legal. Liverpool Trading Substandards seem to be contending that although the supply is perfectly legal then they are still not allowed to offer to supply by way of mail order or telephone order.

Pabo Limited were found guilty in this respect of 53 Summonses (20 having been previously withdrawn). The District Judge imposed a financial penalty in relation to solely the first Summons, namely ?2,500 payable within 28 days. Trading Standards claimed costs of ?22,314.29 and these were approved by the District Judge in their entirety.




6th April

Obscene Law
Liverpool City Council v Interfact Limited

The issues of principle to be determined in this case are:

whether a licensed sex shop can supply R18 videos by way of mail order ore telephone order or whether supply can only be made to a person physically present in the licensed sex shop.
whether a licensed sex shop may offer to supply R18 videos by way of mail order or telephone order
Interfact Ltd lost the case, basically judge agreed with prosecution that the word "supply" is wider than "sale" so all the pro-arguments went out of the window

The net effect is:

No mail order R18's
No offer to supply mail order R18's (in our out of the country)
Surely Interfect will appeal this decision particularly as they hold a licence for mail order supply from the local authority in Barking

Pabo have German directors and supply from Holland and hence the supply side seems totally legal. Point 2 above is therefore crucial in that Liverpool Trading Substandards seem to be contending that although the supply is perfectly legal then they are still not allowed to offer to supply by way of mail order or telephone order.

Pabo are in court in Liverpool today

All of which kinda makes me think Im right to take precautions and that the owners of the sites that I found last night are either very brave or very stupid!

Jay

of course you won't warn them ...

Ermmmm yes, as you can see if you are making bucket loads the first offence fine isn't usually that great (max ?20k or 6months) it's the legal costs that can take you down yours and TS.

Prime Time got stuffed for over ?30k and they where only the suppliers the seller via on line web site BTW got about the same with fines and TS costs.

If you want to sleep at night move it out of the UK to a far more pleasant surroundings.

Too right I wont but at the same time I wont report them

Jay

Jay I have had dealings with police on this type of stuff and have emailed you about it as I don't want to post it on a public forum.

"Some of them also accept cheques making it so easy for the "law" (be that police, trading standards or whoever) to track them down as and when they want to."

That would assume a certain amateurishness and financial naivety on their part. Moody geezers who know their onions can still accept cheques and not be easily traceable. I learnt about this the hard way back in the early 90's.


"two of them are using Worldpay as their payment processor despite them explicitly forbidding DVD and video sales."

If Worldpay finds out they'll get their facility revoked and World Pay will keep their dosh - same applies to Pay Pal.


"Anyway my question is am I wasting my time with all this cloak and dagger stuff??"

No.


"I also made a decision to only sell R18 despite it meaning my catalogue is much smaller and I?m paying higher prices as I cant buy from Europe BUT at the moment the only offence I am committing is not selling R18 from a licensed sex shop."

Ironically, selling certified R18?s is probably the worst thing you can do. It's pretty clear-cut. R18's can only be sold from over the counter in licensed premise. However, if you were an offshore company selling anything but British R18?s you would be cool. Like Gamelink, for instance. They sell what they like to UK customers and there's no problem or hindrance so long as its nothing that's beyond the pale. Forget all this 'obscene' nonsense. It's not really relevant nowadays - so long as it's nothing that's beyond the pale, it's highly unlikely that the CPS would want to chance making a case of it.



"I also made a decision to only sell R18 despite it meaning my catalogue is much smaller and Im paying higher prices as I cant buy from Europe"

Hey, dude, you'll recall that I raised my eyebrows at this when you originally mentioned it. Of course you can buy from Europe. You're an EU citizen aren?t you? I heard that Videorama can wholesale you stuff at half the price of what Brit distributors are charging you, though I'm not sure what range of DVD's that applies to.



"Do the police and trading standards really give a shit?"

The Old Bill doesn?t give a shit; they've got far more important things to attend to - like fucking up ordinary motorists doing 5MPH over the poxy speed limit on a deserted dual carriageway at 3AM in the morning. No, forget about the Old Bill, it's those pathetic small time jobsworths, those public sector ponces, the TS, that could fuck you up.



"Am I likely to get "busted" for doing this if I put a UK address on the site or does no one care as long as the content I am selling is legal?"

Chances are that you probably won't. However, if, for whatever reason the spotlight did fall on you and you roused the sleeping tiger that is the state, you could find yourself in a world of hurt. Forget about the trivialness of your 'offence' - you'd probably just get a fine. But the sting in the tail is the draconian Seizure of Assets legislation - which in effect means if you get done for nicking a Mars Bar 'they' can then say you are a crook and hence all your assets are probably crooked too, and so liable to forfeiture. This is a very real danger that once happened to a close colleague of mine - a nice regular, reliable, respectable chap, who took the Daily Mail and never stole anything from anyone in his life, but because he sold one unlicensed video from his own production company the evil public sector cunts were able to seize everything and he was literally thrown out on the street in the clobber he stood up in. And this while chavs and scumbags are being indulged and can get away with murder.

But hey, don't let me put you off now.



Officer Dibble

Dibbs,

The comment about cant buy from Europe is an assumption on my part and is driven purely by my only selling R18s - I wouldnt have thought too many European disties would be interested in stocking R18 as it is only going to appeal to their UK customers (with a few exceptions). I know I CAN buy from Europe but I dont think too many will offer what I want.

Jay

Hello Jay
I got the adress you need.
I can offer you my adress and full mail service,forwarding,letters,mail and all you need.NO risk for you !
I have several years experience in this busisnes.Know all about how to do it.
It a european based adress - NOT a Uk adress.
Safe,fast,confidential,honest,reliable.
Give me a mail and I will tell you how it works.
Regards
Norlander